Clones????

[PB]

Is it Morally wrong?

Scientifically correct?

Do you think that we should clone humans? And if we clone them for medical purposes is it inhumane to use them for scientific studies and things of that nature?

Been thinking about this a lot lately and thought i would see what you guys think...


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Why do we love the one that hurts us? And hurt the one that loves us?

[Koliedrus]

Are you asking about cloning cells, organs or organisms?

I have different thoughts about each.

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Oyster-brain in a cookie jar.

[gone~away]

cloning humans immediately sends up flags in my mind... i think it's a moral issue, but i can't be certain

i find it scary, very much so, the idea of another one of me somewhere, it takes away one thing that everyone has, a sense of individuality.

i dont like the idea of harvesting organs from clones either, i find it ******* and playing god

i don't believe in god, but i think some things just shouldnt be fucked with.

i'm not quite sure what the other benefits of cloning would be.. i can see military benefits... but im not a fan of the military..

i can see product testing possibilities.. but once again, that seems fairly inhumane...

i think that cloning is just another example of humanity's excessive zeal...

course that's just my opinion, i could be wrong http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif (sorry dennis)

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[Buddha's Penis!]

i'm with Kol. i don't think the cloning of organisms is fair to the life you're creating, as they have no possibilty of normalcy. artificial origins+human feeling and thought=messed up.
while i don't really like it in a visceral sense, i see nothing wrong with cloning organs for replacement purposes.
so i guess my only problem with the whole thing is with cloning a self-conscious being. the cloned sheep doesn't ponder origins, so that's all fine by me.

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you don't know anything until you know everything.

[PB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Koliedrus:
Are you asking about cloning cells, organs or organisms?

I have different thoughts about each.

[/quote]

All of it sweetie..




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Why do we love the one that hurts us? And hurt the one that loves us?

[Raven]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Psychotic _ Bitch:
Is it Morally wrong?

Scientifically correct?

Do you think that we should clone humans? And if we clone them for medical purposes is it inhumane to use them for scientific studies and things of that nature?

Been thinking about this a lot lately and thought i would see what you guys think...


[/quote]

The answer on cloning humans for such purposes is quite obvious. It doesn't take a massive amount of logical thought and reasoning to come to a palpable conclusion. If you were a clone at your present state, would you like it if someone told you that "tomorrow your life will end because they'll be dissecting your body and donating all your organs to research and people who own you and are in need of them"?

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My Website: ForbiddenCompounds.Com (http://www.forbiddencompounds.com/)

[Koliedrus]

The one aspect about cloning that scares us the most is that we will screw up somthing that has happened naturally since life on this planet began.

Eventually, my heart will fail. If the knowledge built up over centuries of trial and error can extract a portion of my DNA to build a new heart in a laboratory, I have no qualms. Neither would I refuse a blood transfusion.

Life is the key here.

If I could offer you an additional 50 years to be tacked on to your time here, would you take it?

Would you pay with a few cells from your own body?

It's here, people. Unfortunately, it's something you may never see in your lifetime.

I'll leave the issue of cloning a complete human for later. I need sleep.

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Oyster-brain in a cookie jar.

[squee]

I don't think it's immoral, except for the fact that we have perfectly good avenues of reproduction that people are trying very hard to shut down completely. Why would the same culture that advocates abortion and contraception for "population control" turn around and start cloning people?

Keep in mind that this is the same society that has as a very important agenda Eugenics on a worldwide scale. The same technology that is used in cloning is also used in gene therapy. There is no need to clone people but the research gets funded anyway because the basic returns help with eugenics research.

[Billyman]

<FONT COLOR="Yellow">it does not matter if its moral or not, just think of all the trouble it could cause. i am speaking on cloning a whole human not only cells or organs. CLONING HUMANS?????NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO oh did i say NO!</FONT c>

[MAC]

Cloning is absolutely OKAY.
It is how the next generation is going to evolve.
Its were our replacements will come from.
The new race of sentients will be built by a man playing god.
Not unlike the last one.


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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

<IMG SRC="http://www.tyler.net/roguewarrior/images/macsnake.jpg" border=0>

[Faceplant]

so far, the church has no moral stand point on it..

cloning has been happening since the 70's and we cant stop it now.

all this talk about how is the next generation going to evolve? easy, just like ours, and the last, and the one before that and so on and so on.

personally, i find it abusive as of now...until we learn how to treat each and every brother and sister of the world correctly, and without bias/hate/anger and without murder and other forms of abuse i dont think we should be allowed cloning.

in all, i think we have to earn the right to clone if anything at all.

[Escape Artist]

My perspective on this is probably skewed, but in this world of mass production it's likely that medical, manufacturing and other corporations are going to jump on this as soon as they find they can get a solid customer base. Hell, they can start mass producing their own workers, and they wouldn't even have to pay them. They can push for legislature in gov't to take all rights away from cloned beings, on the basis of their creation. They can make hearts and shit, sell that off and use the remaining cells to make 50 more people to sell again. This is a bit of a cynical theory, but it applies. All you need are greedy and narrow sighted people in power for this to become a reality.

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Tribal chat, the 6th food group! (http://www.thehypertribe.net/irc/)
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[VenoM]

<FONT COLOR="Red">i dunno, the idea of two faceplant is just scary ekkekekekk</FONT c>

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[Lady Sianna]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>orig posted by faceplant:

personally, i find it abusive as of now...until we learn how to treat each and every brother and sister of the world correctly, and without bias/hate/anger and without murder and other forms of abuse i dont think we should be allowed cloning.[/quote]

<FONT COLOR="purple">amen, brotha! we as a society, as a culture are not responsible enough, not evolved enough, not compassionate enough to even be considering this...

i agree with gone~away...it is a moral issue. and one that i find morally reprehensible. it's toying with the universe. it's fucking with natural evolution. it's just wrong. can't even fathom the aftermath...

but maybe i've had just a wee bit much ta-kill-ya...and i'm not thinkin' straight. http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
no, that's not it...i just think its a really bad idea.</FONT c>

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<FONT COLOR="red">surrender to the naked darkness...</FONT c>

[This message has been edited by Lady Sianna (edited 05-12-2001).]

[Koliedrus]

That sleep I said I was going to get came to three hours so I may no be able to state this as I would like. I realize that I don't have to explain certain aspects and I certaily do not intend to insult your intelligence by doing so. If I don't explain the complete thought, it may not make sense.

Cloning, by definition, is reproduction. Instead of combining the chromosomes of two individuals to create unique DNA, a pattern that has already been established becomes the basic code of a new individual.

Yes: Individual.

Most people are horrified by the prospect of cloning because it bypasses the first step that has been used since sexual reproduction was first introduced at the primordial Wal-Mart. The fear is based on the "man as God" aspect. We tend to invision armies of soulless workers, soldiers and slaves when confronted with the prospect.

Have you ever met a natural clone? Identical twins are exactly that. Did/do you treat them as individuals or as a single entity? If you answered with the latter, you fail. Their thought processes and behaviors are as close as one can come to another's, but their experiences will always remain unique.

If I create a hundred clones of myself and send them out into the world to live their lives, bring them together in a room 25 years later and introduce them to you, you will most certainly notice the similarities they share but you will also notice differences. Some will have long hair and wear jeans, some will be clean-cut and in suits, some will be fat, some athletic. You may even find one with a male partner but I won't open up THAT can of worms just yet http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/wink.gif

The experiences in life make the person.

Now, something you may not know is that a clone's developement can be directed in a way that hinders the developement of body parts. Think of it as purposefully causing a defect.

I'll allow you to form opinions on the information I'm about to give you.

Instead of growing a complete human, a heart (for instance) can be the only part to flourish. Or perhaps just a leg. In essence, customized tissue for transplant. Whether a human life has been taken by supressing the developement of the rest of the body is a debate I place in your capable hands. Just to cap it off, an entire body could be grown without a head and stored for harvest (as it were).

I think I'm getting too far into the ethics involved now so I'll shut up.

Show me your thoughts.

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Oyster-brain in a cookie jar.

[King Bastard]

<FONT COLOR="Red">Every time a debate like this comes up it forces me to challenge my existing thoughts on the topic. But I still see no problem with harvesting parts. Granted, it would be less of a trespass todo that from a "souless" body, the kind without a head.

As mac pointed out, this si the next step. I cant say how soon, but soon enough we will be refining the evolutionary process to speed it up. What should take eons will be done in a few hours or so. Stronger bones, hearts that beat with more life, all that. It's a lot easier for a great many people to entertain the idea of a chunk o fmetal repalcing what they were born with (cybernetics), but in the end flesh will always be a better way to go the steel. Even if made in a lab, it's still more natural.

I pose this to you. Ever seen 6th day? Imagine that it's your child that needs a new heart, liver, something vital. Imagine that the crucial bit of physiology can be grown to even better specs than the one your child was born with, and that implanting it would be a routine procedure. Tell me that you would not sell your soul for it to be done.

Anyway, someone is sure to be pissed at what I've said, so have at me. Btu at least make the counterpoints easy to swallow.</FONT c>

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Borne of sin, C',mon in... Andre Linoge; Storm of the Century

[Faceplant]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by VenoM:
<FONT COLOR="Red">i dunno, the idea of two faceplant is just scary ekkekekekk</FONT c>

[/quote]

yeah, it would be pretty challenging for you to handle 2 of my cocks at once, aye Ven?

[Koliedrus]

Take your personal shit elsewhere.

GGGrrr........pplease. http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/mad.gif

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Oyster-brain in a cookie jar.

[MAC]

the otter
the cow
the eagle
the giraffe

the spark of life is the same
why don't they all look the same
why don't we have one amalgomous animal with long fur in the cold climates and short hair in the hot climates

environmental pressure.

we've been cloning for thousands of years.
pick the sire
pick the dame
if the foal is canon boned put it in front of a plow.

what would you pay for a skinny long haired rottweiler with white spots?

get it?

before the egyptians we chose our breeding stock and utilized a simple natural process.

You want to allow living organs to be grown to save your child from cancer?
Then prepare for the right to clone whatever whenever.
Human grocery store.

It will happen.
Unless you can make beautiful people stop breeding and making beatiful children
and ugly people from doing the same.
Unless you can stop life from evolving to live better under the stress placed upon it...
The next generation is looking back at us through the walls of a beaker.



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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

<IMG SRC="http://www.tyler.net/roguewarrior/images/macsnake.jpg" border=0>