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View Full Version : Not drunk driving....drunk RIDING


Cruise Director
04-18-2003, 01:56 AM
I know that communities all over the country have some pretty crazy drinking laws. Utah definitely has it's share. I pulled this from the Salt Lake Tribune to see what you people think about one of our wonderful anti-drinking programs. The club mentioned is in my town and since it is a sexually oriented business, gets it's share of attention from the authorities.

A trio of friends who spent a night throwing back whiskeys at an Ogden strip club last month did what they thought was the right thing -- they called a cab to take them home.
But a state trooper, apparently alerted by a covert liquor law enforcement agent in the bar, pulled them over and tried to give everyone, including the taxi driver, Breathalyzer tests anyway, according to a request for records filed by a Salt Lake City lawyer this week.
The cab driver passed her test, and the trooper's attempt to analyze the blood-alcohol level of her three passengers, two of whom refused, was a "lawless and unconstitutional act," wrote lawyer Daniel Darger to the Utah Attorney General's Office, asking for all records related to the March 14 "sting operation."
The traffic stop stemmed from Utah's SIPS program -- an acronym for Serving Intoxicated Persons -- which sends the state's nine liquor law enforcement agents into bars and taverns to spy on Utah drinkers.
Ready to pounce when bar patrons get soused, the "sin cops" have some bar owners frothing.
"It sucks," said Kent Knowley, president of the Utah Hospitality Association and the owner of Port O' Call, a Salt Lake City bar. The SIPs program "just doesn't make any sense, because [Utah's] liquor laws don't make sense."
SIPs, which began nearly two years ago, is designed to enforce laws against serving drunk patrons, said Sgt. Dan Catlin, a liquor law enforcement agent with the state Bureau of Investigations.
"We are not against drinking," Catlin said. "Actually, we are trying to put ourselves out of business."
Liquor enforcement agents target establishments if a high number of drunken driving offenders appear to be coming out of a particular bar, or if the bureau receives a tip that a club has broken the law, he said. Enforcers slip into the club and blend into the crowd, watching for over-active tipplers.
If they spot an obviously intoxicated person, "we watch to see if they are still being served," Catlin said.
"We could cite the patron," he added. "But we are not investigating the patron, we are looking at the club. . . . There is nothing illegal about serving unless [the customer] is showing obvious signs of intoxication."
And agents will often contact nearby law enforcement officers to wait outside the bar and make sure that tipsy patrons do not get behind the wheel, Catlin said.
The furtive liquor enforcement agents vex bar owners who say it is impossible to determine drunkenness simply through spying.
"The problem is the law," Knowley said. "With no set limit [to determine drunkenness], it is just a judgment call."
Utah law does not specify when one is legally drunk -- outside of the 0.08 limit set specifically for driving -- so Catlin says the only way to determine inebriation is to watch for tell-tale signs.
"It's usually pretty easy to spot the hard and heavy drinkers," said Catlin. "You look for blood-shot eyes, staggering, that kind of thing."
He sums up Utah law that defines intoxication: "When they are a possible hazard to themselves or others."
Rod Lutz, owner of the Tool Box -- the bar Darger's client, Darin Briggs, and his friends had just left when they were stopped -- cannot understand the agents' motives.
"You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't," Lutz said. "We put patrons into cabs because we want to keep drunk drivers off the street. When they end up getting harassed anyway, it makes you wonder why you bother."
Although he was a passenger, Briggs consented to the Breathalyzer because "he understood he was to do as directed by a police officer or face charges," Darger wrote.
And despite being asked many times to consent, his two friends refused to be tested and eventually the group was allowed to go home.
Agents who see a bartender serving a drunk patron refer the case to the Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control, which can take action against the club by suspending or revoking their liquor license.
Robert Flowers, who as Utah commissioner of Public Safety oversees the investigations bureau, said his department has never received any complaints about the SIPs program.
SIPs "is an important project," Flowers said. "We are trying to protect people from themselves."
kcantera@sltrib.com

It is against the law to get drunk in the state of Utah, but what exactly does that mean?
Utah Code Annotated 76-9-701(1) states, "A person is guilty of intoxication if he is under the influence of intoxicating liquor, a controlled substance, or any substance having the property of releasing toxic vapors, to a degree that the person may endanger himself or another, in a public place or in a private place where he unreasonably disturbs another person."
A violation of this law is a class C misdemeanor, punishable by a maximum of 90 days in jail and a $750 fine.

These guys tried to do the right thing by not driving while intoxicated. The State still wants to go after them. Amazing.

Barbie
04-18-2003, 02:04 AM
Utter bullshit!
:bsflag:

Billyman
04-18-2003, 04:03 AM
Kindly remove the corn cob from Utah's ass.

That's all I got to say about that.

simiantics
04-18-2003, 05:23 AM
"It's usually pretty easy to spot the hard and heavy drinkers," said Catlin. "You look for blood-shot eyes, staggering, that kind of thing."
He sums up Utah law that defines intoxication: "When they are a possible hazard to themselves or others."

Funny, I don't remember drinking within the past few months, but I guess by this that I must be quite the alcoholic.

Venus
04-18-2003, 02:53 PM
Ya know...it's not always easy to tell if someone's drunk or not. When I worked at the bar, I had people there who were loud and annoying when stone sober. I had people who would come, sit at the bar, not bother anyone, and be totally plowed. You can't do it by how much liquor you've served them as people handle liquor differently. I had one guy come in and order 4 beers, and 3 shots of Beam, and he seemed fine. I had another guy come in and order 1 pitcher of Bud, and he was pretty lit by the end of it. You can't hold a bartender/owner responsible for someone's stupid actions. And why is it illegal to get drunk in Utah? If you go about it responsably, like calling a cab instead of driving, you're not posing a threat to anyone else. One doesn't have to be under the influence of anything to be a danger to other people. It's totally crazy.
I don't think it was right of the cop to harrass the guys. In fact, I think they would have won any case in they had been charged. Simply because the cop didn't have any reason to harrass them. And what the hell's with this snitching on someone in the bar?!

dub
04-22-2003, 07:54 AM
The fact that they go to bar's to spy on these people is bordering on
entrapment, this is total shit.

And those guys would have eventually won the case, for sure, just
maybe not in utah. As soon as that case broke state lines, the thing
would be thrown out, as the rest of the US laughs at Utah as it is.

Cruise Director
04-22-2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by dub
The fact that they go to bar's to spy on these people is bordering on
entrapment, this is total shit.

And those guys would have eventually won the case, for sure, just
maybe not in utah. As soon as that case broke state lines, the thing
would be thrown out, as the rest of the US laughs at Utah as it is.

Dub, it's not uncommon to see a wall of highway patrol in a bar's parking lot at closing time. They are ALL OVER drunk driving in Zion.

As for the case, I have seen the letter filed by an attorney representing two of the citizens in the car, the bar association and the specified club involved. There will be a shit storm to come in this matter.

Billyman
04-24-2003, 12:14 AM
And I thought living in the Bible belt was bad.