whatever you want to call it

[mute]

My mind is racing full of questions. Maybe because I'm 21, and still pissed off that I'm learning something new everyday. So, I'm going to try and fit all of these vague/incoherant/rhetoric questions in the same category neatly and nicely as possible.

What makes you more smarter than somone else? What distinguishes person A from having more common sense, know-how, intelligence and the etc. rather than person B?

For example, can someone have a G.E.D. and have more common sense than someone with a High School Diploma? For some reason I'm thinking yes. But, I think the person with the diploma has the right to say they have more common sense because they finished High School.

If someone thinks they know the right thing, but are constantly called idiots by their peers (please don't assume I'm talking about anyone I know nor me), does it still make him/her smart? Even if he/she ignores what people tell him/her, and deep down listens to his/her own decisions.

Elaboration after discussion.

[sauron]

Intelligence is a relative concept, there is no accurate absolute measure of intelligence.

Someone can be "book smart" - but have absolutely no common sense ("street smart"), and someone can be "street smart" - but have very little to no book smarts.

- d.

[Mae]

I agree, however I must reply to the GED comment. All a GED proves is that your work habits are not up to sitting in a small cramped room for eight hours a day. A diploma shows that you can sit in place and not talk, as well as regurgitate information on demand. I believe that intelligence is where you are and where you end up. "Stupid" people end up unhappy and poor. (Screw life chances) "Smart" people end up having a lot of money or at least comfortable and happy. Not true all the time. ~But I attribute smarts to happiness.

[Billyman]

What makes you more smarter than somone else? What distinguishes person A from having more common sense, know-how, intelligence and the etc. rather than person B?

Drop the common sense for a sec.

Know how, intelligence and etc of person A over person B comes from: Study and experience. I have superior know how and knowledge in the automotive field to that of you bad-mojo, but it doesn't make me smarter than you. Just more knowledgable in a particular field.

For example, can someone have a G.E.D. and have more common sense than someone with a High School Diploma? For some reason I'm thinking yes. But, I think the person with the diploma has the right to say they have more common sense because they finished High School.

Here's where we get into common sense. Common sense has nothing to do with education. GED's, Diplomas, PHD's, Masters, etc. Some of the people who have these things are the dumbest people you'll ever meet (common sense wise). Never confuse them. Common sense comes easy to most of us, you have it, I've seen it, the education you're working on.

If someone thinks they know the right thing, but are constantly called idiots by their peers (please don't assume I'm talking about anyone I know nor me), does it still make him/her smart? Even if he/she ignores what people tell him/her, and deep down listens to his/her own decisions.

In cases like this, we tend to second guess ourselves, not all the time, but sometimes. Take religion for instance. Let's say you have a question about the interpretation of a particular scripture from the bible. You inquire about an interpretation from five different groups, each have a different 'meaning' to them. Who's right? One of those is what you've "felt" all along it meant, two others made good sense and kinda left you wondering. Second guessing yourself. Your peers (the one's withing your group) call you an idiot because you contemplate someone elses "meaning" making more sense. Do you A) Go with your gut? B) Go with what is popular? C) Find what make's the most sense to you and hang on to that?

On the other hand, outside stuff such as religion and in other normal everyday activities and life learnings, if you think one way, and feel very strongly about it, then, a large group (from all different walks of life) screams at you and say's "no, that isn't right", maybe they're right and you're wrong. That's part of the educational process.

[3MTA3]

Its all experience.

Experience includes everything...your starting potential, your exposure to material, study, everything...experience. Thats all that seperates a layman from a pro...

[mute]

Alrighty, I'll use some example from my life experience here.

I have a friend who didn't get past grade 10 high school. Actually, I have a couple of friends. There's one friend who thinks it's no big deal that he doesn't even have a high school diploma. From what I've learnt a high school diploma doesn't even come close to todays standards, and sorry to be blunt 'doesn't mean shit'. Sure, a high school diploma can get you a decent minimum wage job, but it's not going to get you anywheres fast. But let me say I'm discluding 'connections' and heirs. My friend seems to think getting a GED isn't worth it. I tried saying, "Wouldn't it be safe just to get it though, so you don't have to worry about it?"

He seems to disagree with me. I know most of you're saying to yourself, "Why would bad-moj0 hang around a guy like that anyways?"

That's where common sense comes in :) So again I ask, if I know it's stupid but I still do it, does that make me stupid? .... I'll answer that, yes.

Now I'll continue with my other example. I'm out with my friends sitting in a car and usually that gets us talking. Talking about practically everything. Sometimes I think I have my head screwed on a little better than some of them. Here's an example why, and trust me most of you might laugh at this. My friend seems to think that 'back in the day' Canada was the most powerful country in the world that had a huge army that kept peace around the world. Trust me, that's what he said. There was more, but that sums it it. Me and my other friend looked at each other, both with odd looks on our faces. I tried explaining to my friend what really happened 'back in the day'. I don't know that much, but I still have a little memory of grade 6 history. Ya know, the wars between the British and French for North American territory, the revolution when the U.S.A. became the U.S.A.. I really wanted my friend to get that into his head because he seemed to firmly believe what he said. I didn't get through to him. Both of us couldn't get through to him.

Don't get me wrong, this friend is a very funny guy and easy to get along with. He makes fun of us a lot because of his insecurities, but he's an alright guy. He can play sports better than me and is in carpentry school. So he's better at carpentry then me. But he's kind of dumb. No he's really dumb. But who am I to judge? (what he likes to say a lot)

Both of the friends I've mentioned seem to demand that people treat them as if they were on the same 'level' as they are. When I say that I mean they want me and some of my intelligent friends to treat them as if they were as smart as us. I really think I sound ignorant like they do when I say that, because how do I know I'm smarter then they are? I have a lot of proof that I am, but I just keep it inside making every idiotic thing they say boil up even more. Like for instance, them making fun of me because when I read a word I don't understand, I look it up in the dictionary. "Pat thinks he's smart because he reads the dictionary." They like to say that when I surprise the both of us and use 'big' words and I know what they mean. oooo 'big' words!

Blah, I ranted about shit there.

On another note, does making a lot of money make you smart? I'd say no.

Last night I was talking with one of my more intelligent friends about stupid people. He said something that made me kind of scared.

"Think of all the dumb people we know. We know a lot of dumb people. Now try think of how many more people out there that are that dumb ..............*pause*............. That's a lot of fucking dumb people. Think of the Inquirer magazine and how dumb it is. Now how long has it been around? A long time, and why? Because there's that many dumb people buying it."

[Billyman]

I think you're answering your own questions the more you think and type shit out. You're really wrong about some stuff but your getting most of it all by yourself.

Your "dumb" friends attempt to belittle you for being "smart". It's their way of coping with their insecurities. If it doesn't bother you much, just blow it off. If it bothers you, start quizing them about shit, just for shits-and-giggles, they tone down real quick.

Just because you hang around (as you call) "stupid" people does NOT make you stupid too.

[Barbie]

Originally posted by Billyman

Just because you hang around (as you call) "stupid" people does NOT make you stupid too.

My oma says (and I agree with her to some extent) that
"You are a reflection of the people you associate with."

she has one grandson who, though is a common sense person, smart (though not formally educated) hangs out with people that do thing that are VERY questionable, immoral..
her grandson doesn't do these things, but his friends do.

"You are a reflection of the people you associate with"

[SimpleSimon]

You know, old sayings often contain grains of truth. Strangely enough, that is frequently why they are known as "truisms".

"Birds of a feather flock together."

"Stupid is as stupid does."

"What you see is what you get."

All old sayings, all truisms, all folk wisdom describing social reality. Re-read what you yourself have posted in description of your "friends", your "buddies", the guys you "hang with" (another old saying, think about the implications) bad-mojo, and apply some "common sense".

[MAC]

Well, I've been stuck in here in front of the puter for the better part of two days now waiting on a machine...should it ever get here I'll have to stop everything and get on it. But, until then I am reading mute's post and thinking about my own limited relationships with friends and I can relate strongly to the concept of not fitting in because of the way you think. Regardless how you label smart, dumb, experienced, naive, etc you end up with the actions and speech we associate with the "way" ppl think. Some ppl consider being intellectual to mean you cannot fathom anything imaginative. Some ppl consider stupidity to just be lack of education. But most of us realise that there are distinct gradiations in how they act on what they cognitively understand.
When I was young plenty of ppl told me how smart I was. Everytime I looked for proof of it against the complexity of the universe I found that I was barely fit to survive. But when I compared myself to other ppl I found the fracture between smart and dumb was too much to handle. Ppl (children especially) fight to be good at something. They relish "beating" anyone who has ever "beaten" them at something and EVERYTHING is a contest. If I did good on a test some "moron" had to beat me at something else to feel better about himself. Anything you don't do well or at all is obviously your "weakness". Academics are hit harder than sports because being beaten based on physical competetion is not nearly as bad as failing of your own etherial merit.
"well at least you tryed"
what a crock of shit, competition is not the purpose of doing things.
you don't run around the track to beat other ppl
you don't study math to out calculate someone else
pardon my sudden zen wanderings but internal improvement is instantly reflected in the environment you live in and does NOT require beating anyone or scoring better than them. Scores are no different than statistics and, as you've seen here in the last few years, we can make them do anything we want.

Now I am sad to say that I have the same basic desires as everyone else as far as human contact, needing to feel appreciated, supported, etc. but in all honesty I gave up on being close to folks long ago. I appreciate the few I have and I have faith they will be there when I need them. But making friends, fitting in and associating relys on your rankings in that group. Ppl keep saying "no it doesn't" but I have seen very little proof of this. its true that ppl CAN live relatively bias free lives in harmony with ppl who are very different than themselves....but they don't.
They simply do not. They look for comfort in ppl in their income brackets, religious beliefs, skin color, social patterns. Ppl who are similar to them in intelligence and thought pattern...and they look for that in ppl who live where they live and eat what they eat and believe what they believe and LOOK like them.

I had a very good reminder of this the other day when someone, apparently, made a decision about me based on where I work and where I live. You are what you appear to be.
Life truely is just like it was when I was 19.

[mute]

Originally posted by bad-moj0
That's where common sense comes in :) So again I ask, if I know it's stupid but I still do it, does that make me stupid? .... I'll answer that, yes.

Originally posted by SimpleSimon
You know, old sayings often contain grains of truth. Strangely enough, that is frequently why they are known as "truisms".

"Birds of a feather flock together."

"Stupid is as stupid does."

"What you see is what you get."

All old sayings, all truisms, all folk wisdom describing social reality. Re-read what you yourself have posted in description of your "friends", your "buddies", the guys you "hang with" (another old saying, think about the implications) bad-mojo, and apply some "common sense".

Does one need to be told over and over again if he/she already knows?

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by bad-moj0
Does one need to be told over and over again if he/she already knows?

Apparently, yes.

[Barbie]

who you choose to align yourslef with in your live has much to do with your value of yourself. How you see yourself. Who you think you deserve to hang out with.
On another note, people align themselves with others who compliment their IALAC.
I - I
A - Am
L - Lovable
A - And
C - Capable

As well, who you choose to spend your time with and call your friends, has alot to do with your self esteem, or lack there of.
And, as alot to do with the *strokes* you get from authority - or those you seek approval from.

Some ppl hang out with others that generate negative strokes - maybe because getting negative strokes are better than no strokes at all.

Strokes are attention getters.

So if you do something that gets negative attention, it's better than getting no attention at all...and just like biting your nails or smoking a cigerette...who you choose to align youself with is a bad habit to break.

ramble ramble

[mute]

I was talking about dumb people. I was using my friends as examples. Barbie.

[Barbie]

I know who you are talking about: and I'm telling your associates can make you look bad...and you might want that.

[Billyman]

It sounds as if you just aren't comfortable or happy with your friends mojo. Taking a look at yourself and wondering? What gives dude? Do tell.

[mute]

I don't know why you ask, because I think I've said something about my 'friends' before, and many other times. But I thought this was about stupid people. Not soley just me and the people I know, but the people you know or have come across before.

[Venus]

Boy have I known some stupid people. Now I call them stupid because they seem to always be doing things that I would consider stupid. Dancing on tables in restraunts, running around in front of a 2000 lb animal hoping they don't get trampled. I also know couple of people who dropped out of highschool. One falls into the stupid catagory, one falls into the not stupid catagory. One's stupid because he refuses to get a GED, refuses to apply himself, refuses to further his education in any way. He's constantly jumping from job to job, no real stability. The other one, well she makes more than I do. She holds steady jobs, she doesn't get herself in financial trouble (at least not yet), she knows she needs to get that GED, and she plans on it, just doesn't know when yet. Hell, she wants to go back to school as soon as she does get the GED. I don't think it has anything to do with your education. Common sense plays alot more because someone could have a PHD and if the guy chokes to death on plastic fork trying to get something else out of his throat, I'll call him stupid.

[Billyman]

Originally posted by bad-moj0
I don't know why you ask, because I think I've said something about my 'friends' before, and many other times. But I thought this was about stupid people. Not soley just me and the people I know, but the people you know or have come across before.

I asked simply because throughout this thread you have used your friends as examples over and over and over. YOUR friends and your relationship with them is what sparked this thread (hence the constant references). If you really wanted to talk about 'stupid' people you've/we've merely met then give me example's of the fucktards you saw in the mall or while at work but leave your 'friends' out of it. :)

[Koliedrus]

Stupidity is in the eye of the beholder and friendships require at least a few points of commonality to be thought of as such.

A Special Olymics volunteer can be surrounded by "stupid" people, see the "smart" in them and form friendships without having to be retarded (I tire of being PC).

Apply that concept to any other group that you can think of; gang-bangers, for example. What they have in common is the basis of their "friendships". The same goes for branches of the military, religious congregations, sports teams, their fans and even internet communities.

My definition of "Stupid" may not mirror yours. My dog is my friend. She's smart but she can't comprehend cosmology. Our friendship is rooted in middle-ground. I work with several people I consider to be friends but what we have in common varies according to the individual. Some share my sense of humor, some look for answers to questions, some provide those answers. The ones I consider to be "stupid" are those with a predefined view of reality, have the mental capacity to look at things from a different perspective and choose not to do so. In short, they choose to be comfortable existing in their own little world and nothing coming in from outside can change what they see.

Stupid people are smart people who choose not to be. "Stubborn" and "unyielding" also come to mind. That doesn't mean that you can't be friends with them and retain your own level of non-stupidness. Emulating their stupidity for the sake of friendship classifies you as "Stupid".

Now, I'll have to reread this and apply it to myself. I've never given it this much thought.