Letters

[Venus]

To all those who protest the war. To the people carrying signs up and down the sidewalk. To the demonstrators who block the streets and those gathering outside the White House to shout their disaproval of our actions. Why? I ask the simple question of why. I hear all about your ranting and raving. Tell everyone that you feel it's wrong for us to be there, to be fighting to free the Iraqi people. What I don't hear is why you think it's wrong. Is it that innocent people will die? Your dislike for Bush because you didn't vote for him? Is it because you believe we're only doing this because they have oil? Tell me what is wrong about it, and why you think it's wrong. My understanding is that when Sadam was defeated in the first Gulf War, when he invaded Kuwait, the agreement he signed with the UN said he was not allowed to have missles that reached outside his borders. He was not allowed to have chemical weapons, biological weapons, or weapons of mass distruction. If that's wrong, please let me know. Now, upon the start of our air attacks, he retaliated by bombing Kuwait. That proves he had some of the things he swore he didn't. The very things he said he wouldn't build. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that put him in violation of the UN Resolution? A large fear of this war is the use of chemical and biological weapons against our troops. That's two more violations of the Resolution. These are weapons he's more than willing to use on his own people. Why wouldn't he use them on those that he hates? Those that defeated him, and forced him to sign the Resolution in the first place?
When America was attacked on September 11, thousands of innocent people lost their lives. Shortly after the attack, rumors circled about some memo in the government that stated they had reason to think this attack was going to happen. You cried at the government "Why didn't you do something to save those lives?" Well folks, now we have (or at least I have) reason to believe he has weapons to do more damage, kill more Americans, and you all want us to do nothing about it. You want us to sit and wait for him to use them against us. Then you'll be 100% ready for war. I would rather not wait until my daughter's life is in danger to start making it safe.
You take advantage of government funding, activities, schools, programs, and security then burn the flag shouting you're ashamed to be an American because of our government. We have the ability to help the innocent Iraqi people, and to help secure our own safty against another devistating attack and yet, you protest our doing so.
You shout "No blood for oil", but we get most of our oil from Kuwait, some of the people we're helping to save.
You all proudly flew your American flag for a year after September 11. You had "United We Stand" bumper stickers, and t-shirts. Now you won't stand for your country, for your security. So why? Tell me why you feel this is so wrong.



To the troops overseas, and those here working around the clock to keep us safe.
Thank you. It is your work, your dedication, your life that allows me to tuck my daughter into bed at night, and tell her everything's ok. The people working from 6:00am to 6:00pm making sure all our survailance is working. Those who work from 6:00pm to 6:00am watching our satalites seeing planes that fly over our country, watching for missles and bombs to intercept. Thank You. To those who won't see their loved ones until this is all over. To the women who will have children while their husbands are in Iraq, be proud of them. It's your husband that helps provide a safe place to raise that child.
I'm proud of them. They swore they would defend their country willingly whenever they were asked to do so. They're proud to fight and die for America, and even the people who ridicule them. Each and every one of those men and women are heros. And from the bottom of my heart, I thank them.

[Pianomahnn]

Word.

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by Venus
To all those who protest the war. To the people carrying signs up and down the sidewalk. To the demonstrators who block the streets and those gathering outside the White House to shout their disaproval of our actions. Why? I ask the simple question of why. I hear all about your ranting and raving. Tell everyone that you feel it's wrong for us to be there, to be fighting to free the Iraqi people. What I don't hear is why you think it's wrong. Is it that innocent people will die? Your dislike for Bush because you didn't vote for him? Is it because you believe we're only doing this because they have oil? Tell me what is wrong about it, and why you think it's wrong.
We are not there to free the Iraqi people. That is the manipulative hypocrisy of the spin-doctors and the politicians. The actions of the US in invading Iraq are wrong for three simple reasons:

1) Our leaders have lied to us consistently about the risk Iraq poses to the US

2) Our leaders have lied to us consistenly about the linkage of Iraq (a secular Arab state whose leadership is multi-religious and multicultural) and Al-Queda (a religious organization whose aim is the promulgation of theocratic control)

3) It is unnecessary and even in the short term, destructive of US interests.


My understanding is that when Sadam was defeated in the first Gulf War, when he invaded Kuwait, the agreement he signed with the UN said he was not allowed to have missles that reached outside his borders. He was not allowed to have chemical weapons, biological weapons, or weapons of mass distruction. If that's wrong, please let me know. Now, upon the start of our air attacks, he retaliated by bombing Kuwait. That proves he had some of the things he swore he didn't. The very things he said he wouldn't build. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that put him in violation of the UN Resolution?
Yes, it does. The agreement to which you allude was a UN brokered and authorized agreement. Despite all the rhetoric, the US acted as an adjunct of the UN in 91. This time, we have no such authorization. The ongoing war in Iraq is illegal, by the laws of this nation, let alone such high-flying concepts as international law.

A large fear of this war is the use of chemical and biological weapons against our troops. That's two more violations of the Resolution. These are weapons he's more than willing to use on his own people. Why wouldn't he use them on those that he hates? Those that defeated him, and forced him to sign the Resolution in the first place?
Why wouldn't he? I firmly believe that he would, and probably will do so in the end-game scenarios around Bagdad. The important point here is he could not use them against our troops if they were not invading his nation.

When America was attacked on September 11, thousands of innocent people lost their lives. Shortly after the attack, rumors circled about some memo in the government that stated they had reason to think this attack was going to happen. You cried at the government "Why didn't you do something to save those lives?"
Those weren't rumors, they are established facts.

Well folks, now we have (or at least I have) reason to believe he has weapons to do more damage, kill more Americans, and you all want us to do nothing about it. You want us to sit and wait for him to use them against us. Then you'll be 100% ready for war. I would rather not wait until my daughter's life is in danger to start making it safe.
First of all, the only Americans killed by Saddam's weapons were engaged in warfare against him, both in '91, and now. There is no verifiable, credible evidence linking Saddam to any terrorist attack on US soil, or US interests abroad.

You take advantage of government funding, activities, schools, programs, and security then burn the flag shouting you're ashamed to be an American because of our government.
I have never been ashamed to be an American, although I have frequently been ashamed of my governments actions. As to the opener of the paragraph, I am quite sure you have received governmental assistance of one sort or another in your life. What bearing has that on political views?
We have the ability to help the innocent Iraqi people, and to help secure our own safty against another devistating attack and yet, you protest our doing so.
Again, it has nothing to do with helping the Iraqi people. Nothing. Securing our future safety "against another devistating (sic) attack"? Our actions practically guarantee increasingly frequent, increasingly violent attacks, from quarters we cannot yet even see, let alone prepare against. Welcome to the 'Pax Americana'.

You shout "No blood for oil", but we get most of our oil from Kuwait, some of the people we're helping to save.
In fact, this is not true.

You all proudly flew your American flag for a year after September 11. You had "United We Stand" bumper stickers, and t-shirts. Now you won't stand for your country, for your security. So why? Tell me why you feel this is so wrong.I have not now, nor have I ever had, nor will I ever have, an American flag. Not because I disdain it, or despise this country - because my beliefs and how I express them is my business, not the publics.

And now I will speak for myself, not in reaction to the impassioned words of another.

Venus, I applaud your words, your outpouring of obviously heartfelt emotions. I admire your courage, and I respect your views - even more importantly, I respect your right to espouse them.

I do not share them. I have spent a lot of my life looking at the nature of man and his institutions - hell, I've been a part of some of those institutions. I cannot abide hypocrisy, deceit, misrepresentation, lies.

George W. Bush, and his cabinet officers (possibly excepting Mr. Powell) have practiced just those, and worse, from day one of his administration. The exigencies of politics/diplomacy might be argued to mitigate some of that. I will leave that argument for another day.

We have in office in the presidency of this nation the most thorough-going liar, hypocrite, poltroon and tyrant this nation has ever suffered. I will not survive long enough to suffer his legacy to any large degree. You, and your daughter, likely will. Good luck.



To the troops overseas, and those here working around the clock to keep us safe.
Thank you. It is your work, your dedication, your life that allows me to tuck my daughter into bed at night, and tell her everything's ok. The people working from 6:00am to 6:00pm making sure all our survailance is working. Those who work from 6:00pm to 6:00am watching our satalites seeing planes that fly over our country, watching for missles and bombs to intercept. Thank You. To those who won't see their loved ones until this is all over. To the women who will have children while their husbands are in Iraq, be proud of them. It's your husband that helps provide a safe place to raise that child.
I'm proud of them. They swore they would defend their country willingly whenever they were asked to do so. They're proud to fight and die for America, and even the people who ridicule them. Each and every one of those men and women are heros. And from the bottom of my heart, I thank them.
Well said.

[A.D.H.D]

Originally posted by Venus
To all those who protest the war. To the people carrying signs up and down the sidewalk. To the demonstrators who block the streets and those gathering outside the White House to shout their disaproval of our actions. Why? I ask the simple question of why. I hear all about your ranting and raving. Tell everyone that you feel it's wrong for us to be there, to be fighting to free the Iraqi people.

Firstly, I don’t believe the motivation of the American government is to free the Iraqi people. Why it chose now as the time to spend in excess of 80 billion to free them is an interesting question I think. Your emotive language ‘ranting’ and ‘raving’ implies that whatever I could say would be dismissed out of hand anyway, but I’ll try. I don’t believe we should be invading a country under the pretence that they harbour a threat to America, because quite simply I haven’t been persuaded that that threat exists. Not to the level of justification needed to invade first, definitely. Further I see no risk whatsoever to Australia and in that sense don’t think we should be part of any invasion force. Freeing the Iraqi people is a noble goal, I’m not denying that, and I will offer no resistance on the repugnance of Hussein, but I believe the aims can be achieved outside of conflict. Disarming him, assuming you believe he has weaponry he shouldn’t, is also a good idea, but likewise I don’t think he could have acted in the political climate prior to the invasion. He is interested in power, and his own life, two things he wouldn’t have if he used WOMD, in that sense, I believe containment was working.



What I don't hear is why you think it's wrong. Is it that innocent people will die? Your dislike for Bush because you didn't vote for him? Is it because you believe we're only doing this because they have oil? Tell me what is wrong about it, and why you think it's wrong.

Yes, I think it’s wrong because innocent people will die. I also think innocent people would have died if Hussein was left unchecked, but he most certainly in my opinion wasn’t being left unchecked. If we, and I mean America, Spain, England and Australia and other pro-war governments had diplomatically searched for a solution and acted with the full weight of international opinion, support and force I believe this would be better situation.

Yes, I dislike that Bush is acting without international consent (in my eyes), and dictating his policy to Australia; only because we will need your support if we’re attack soon.

I don’t think we are doing this for oil. Although I can’t be sure, can you?


My understanding is that when Sadam was defeated in the first Gulf War, when he invaded Kuwait, the agreement he signed with the UN said he was not allowed to have missles that reached outside his borders. He was not allowed to have chemical weapons, biological weapons, or weapons of mass distruction. If that's wrong, please let me know. Now, upon the start of our air attacks, he retaliated by bombing Kuwait. That proves he had some of the things he swore he didn't. The very things he said he wouldn't build. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that put him in violation of the UN Resolution?


“Hey, we found a reason for war, 2 days in! yay”

But largely I agree with you here, I think he was in violation, I just disagree about the course of action we should be taking to rectify the problem.


A large fear of this war is the use of chemical and biological weapons against our troops. That's two more violations of the Resolution. These are weapons he's more than willing to use on his own people. Why wouldn't he use them on those that he hates? Those that defeated him, and forced him to sign the Resolution in the first place?


A large fear.

Couldn’t have said it better. It is not really a large fact. I think you’ve raised a good point here, fear of the unknown is an important consideration. “Christ, that guy could have weaponry, and he could use them against us, and he could be in cahoots with those guys who got us back in 2001, and he could use them against his own people, so why the fuck should we take the chance?”

It is my belief that the inspection should have been left to go on longer, and was making process, if somewhat slow.


When America was attacked on September 11, thousands of innocent people lost their lives. Shortly after the attack, rumors circled about some memo in the government that stated they had reason to think this attack was going to happen. You cried at the government "Why didn't you do something to save those lives?" Well folks, now we have (or at least I have) reason to believe he has weapons to do more damage, kill more Americans, and you all want us to do nothing about it. You want us to sit and wait for him to use them against us. Then you'll be 100% ready for war. I would rather not wait until my daughter's life is in danger to start making it safe.

I just don’t see in my wildest dreams that he has the capacity to harm America. Especially in the political climate prior to the invasion.


You take advantage of government funding, activities, schools, programs, and security then burn the flag shouting you're ashamed to be an American because of our government. We have the ability to help the innocent Iraqi people, and to help secure our own safty against another devistating attack and yet, you protest our doing so.
You shout "No blood for oil", but we get most of our oil from Kuwait, some of the people we're helping to save.
You all proudly flew your American flag for a year after September 11. You had "United We Stand" bumper stickers, and t-shirts. Now you won't stand for your country, for your security. So why? Tell me why you feel this is so wrong.


Firstly, I don’t receive any help from your government.
Secondly, I don’t burn flags.
Thirdly, by another, I assume you’re referring to 9/11 and somehow that he had something to do with the last one, I don’t see this connection.


What a surprise you get most of your oil from the country you liberated last time!
So are you sure it isn’t blood for oil this time, if not, why not?

Also, I wouldn’t attach stickers to my car, nor do I not stand for my country or our security just because I disagree on one issue, come on, how can you say anti war people don’t stand for security and their respective countries just because they oppose the war and don’t see themselves under a security threat? It’s wrong because it isn’t totally necessary.


To the troops overseas, and those here working around the clock to keep us safe.
Thank you. It is your work, your dedication, your life that allows me to tuck my daughter into bed at night, and tell her everything's ok. The people working from 6:00am to 6:00pm making sure all our survailance is working. Those who work from 6:00pm to 6:00am watching our satalites seeing planes that fly over our country, watching for missles and bombs to intercept. Thank You. To those who won't see their loved ones until this is all over. To the women who will have children while their husbands are in Iraq, be proud of them. It's your husband that helps provide a safe place to raise that child.
I'm proud of them. They swore they would defend their country willingly whenever they were asked to do so. They're proud to fight and die for America, and even the people who ridicule them. Each and every one of those men and women are heros. And from the bottom of my heart, I thank them.

Well verbalised.

My position still allows me to I think, support the men and women taking orders, and while I don’t support the government making the decisions, I recognise the soldiers commitment, dedication, and sacrifice.

[Venus]

Originally posted by SimpleSimon

We are not there to free the Iraqi people. That is the manipulative hypocrisy of the spin-doctors and the politicians. The actions of the US in invading Iraq are wrong for three simple reasons:

1) Our leaders have lied to us consistently about the risk Iraq poses to the US

2) Our leaders have lied to us consistenly about the linkage of Iraq (a secular Arab state whose leadership is multi-religious and multicultural) and Al-Queda (a religious organization whose aim is the promulgation of theocratic control)

3) It is unnecessary and even in the short term, destructive of US interests.

Sadam having weapons of mass destruction or chemical/biological weapons doesn't poes a threat to the US? Why not?
I don't care if Iraq and Al-Queda are related. I never said I believed they were. What makes a war necessary?




Why wouldn't he? I firmly believe that he would, and probably will do so in the end-game scenarios around Bagdad. The important point here is he could not use them against our troops if they were not invading his nation.

I firmly believe he would, and could if we didn't nothing about it, use them against us if our troops weren't there either. I have no doubt that those chemical and biological weapons would find their way into American borders.


Those weren't rumors, they are established facts.

I said rumor because I didn't know where to start looking into it to find out if it was a fact.


I have never been ashamed to be an American, although I have frequently been ashamed of my governments actions. As to the opener of the paragraph, I am quite sure you have received governmental assistance of one sort or another in your life. What bearing has that on political views?


I think it's a little hypocritical to take advantage of the things our government offers us and then carry around that picket sign saying "he's not my president" or "not in my name" or blah blah. I'm sure I have used government assistance, but I've never once said anything about being ashamed of it's actions.

Again, it has nothing to do with helping the Iraqi people. Nothing. Securing our future safety "against another devistating (sic) attack"? Our actions practically guarantee increasingly frequent, increasingly violent attacks, from quarters we cannot yet even see, let alone prepare against. Welcome to the 'Pax Americana'.


?


In fact, this is not true.

I knew I forgot to check one sorce...sorry about that.



Well said.

Now, how can you agree with thanking our troops for putting their lives on the line to protect our security, safty and freedom if you don't believe they're in need of protecting?



ADHD, I'll come back when I have more time.

[SimpleSimon]

I was not thanking our troops for anything. I was acknowledging your statement as being well said.

"Our troops" deserve thanks for undertaking a difficult, dangerous, poorly rewarded task as assigned to them by their lawful officers and commanders. I do not agree with the necessity, or wisdom, of the task assigned, but I acknowledge and admire their committment to duty undertaken voluntarily.

Inasmuch as I am able to control my own life, I decline to be subservient to the goals and orders of "authority" figures with whom I do not agree. For those who choose to let others make their decisions for them, do their thinking for them, well and good. Not my path.

[Billyman]

I have found myself torn over this whole war. I refuse to protest it or support it. Although my heart does go out to the troops (they're just fallowing orders) and their families Simon really couldn't be more correct. My knee jerk to the Germans boycotting was "fuck 'em" and that isn't the correct response once seriously thought about. The French and many, many others have refused to engage in this war by our side with good reason. They see the bullshit and don't want to step in it. It isn't fear, it isn't rebellion, they smell the air just like we do and they know something stinks.

[Lady Sianna]

can i just say that Simon has completely & so eloquently stated the thoughts & feelings running amok in my head regarding all of this (not that there aren't more rogue thoughts & feelings to be expressed!). :)

as one who has marched and as one who has helped create a memorial to those victims of war - this & others - on all sides...i do so because my own conscience dictates, because the pangs in my heart demand action against that which i believe unjust & that which i certainly believe to be carried out in the name of wealth, power & greed and not with the intention of liberating the Iraqi peoples. that very well could be a summary of why most of the world's native cultures stand opposed to the U.S. invasion of and terroristic actions toward Iraq. i need more proof that Saddam (although an evil man who could be taken out by means other than waging war upon a country who doesn't support and secretly fears such an authority) hides "weapons of mass destruction" intent on causing the U.S. harm.

also, i'm quite confused as to why we seem to be the only nation allowed to possess (with intention to use) variables of those very same weapons of mass destruction.

*sigh* i'm slightly wine tainted & could perhaps be rambling, so i'll stop now & rest my world weary head a while.

fare thee well lovely folks, deep thinkers & passionate believers.

peace & love...to all peoples of the world, and especially the troops involved in this war.

[A.D.H.D]

For starts Lady, there are many, many countries allowed to have weaponry of mass destruction, of which the US is just one. The difference being the USA and others are allowed to have them under UN resolutions, etc.

[SimpleSimon]

In point of fact, that is backwards, ADHD. The only restrictions on national possession of "weapons of mass destrucion" extant are multi-lateral and bi-lateral treaties freely entered into by various nations.

The ONLY nation denied possession of these weapons by UN declaration is Iraq.

As a side note, the only nation to use chemical and radiological weapons in Gulf War I was the US.

[sauron]

Originally posted by SimpleSimon
As a side note, the only nation to use chemical and radiological weapons in Gulf War I was the US.

And that is probably true for this war, as well.

- d.

[SimpleSimon]

Every use of a DU weapon constitutes both a chemical and a radiological attack, as defined by the US Dept of Defense.

[A.D.H.D]

Thanks for the heads up Simon, I wasn't really sure (obviously) about the international legality, cheers.

[ms. bing]

today as an exercise in the critical theory of deconstruction my prof and i focused on the war in iraq.
we decided it didnt really exist.
the unfortunate thing is that i know people in iraq right now fighting this war that doesnt exist.
so much for french theory.

[MrsKol]

Venus, I feel much the same way you do. I'm not so sure about the facts, but I do know we need to stay united.

At times, I am conflicted by the war and the justness of it. Then I think of some of the things I have seen in my life and I know the evil does exits and I feel that Saddam is evil. He is not the only one and as odd as it sounds, I am not passing judgement, but simply stating that evil exists.

Do I feel the way I do because of growing up in a military family, probably. The thing is though, my father was not a strict military man. He saw it as a job, a job worth doing well, because it was for his country. There were many weeks, I did not know where my dad was, and there were times where he was on a consisent schedule, I knew exactly where he was at all times of the day.

Does the fact I now have family members (and friends) in the military influence the way I feel. Again, probably. Am I gratefully they are doing their job? You bet.

I do know (and have learned) one thing. And this is from my dad. There are times when Americans do NOT need to know everything the government is doing. An odd statement from someone who believes strongly in freedom and the rights to seek knowledge. However, I also believe that part of having freedom, is also having the maturity to know when is the time to say, No, I don't need to know this and I trust my representatives in the government to handle this.