Frontline

[Jenny]

As war with Iraq looms, I find this is an important part of my thoughts on the whole thing. Maybe other people's input will help, or they will feel like posting pictures of their genitals. Either way.

This is what I'm talking about. About a year or two ago, before 9-11, there was a lot in the news about lax airport security. Every news story about it concluded with a sort of "somebody should do something about it" attitude. Nobody did, until 9-11.

I'm going to say ahead of time that I would really appreciate it if people could take the time to read this. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/script.html) Don't rush, there's a real education there.

I just reread it, after having seen the original program. At that time, nobody could foresee the U.S. going in to just kill the bastard. It was just like the situation with the airport security; "Something needs to be done."

Remember, that was broadcast just after Sept. 11 (airdate Nov. 8, 2001) and under Clinton's administration at the time. The elections would be in a few weeks and none of the candidates had even spoken about the issue of Saddam. I filed it away for future reference, and have found as this situation builds that it has quite a strong effect on my perception of this problem.

I'd certainly appreciate it if other people could weigh in with their perceptions and discuss this.

[MAC]

edit: I'm sorry to be the first to respond and take a tangent on your thread, but this is immediately what came to mind. I am reading the link BTW

*MAC is picking up a vibe*

"something needs to be done"

how to address this properly without typing 15 pages?
well, apparently when you'd rather not be accurate and understanding, being pissed works just as well.

so....

pick anything you like
I look at my cigars and see the stigma of smoking created by smokers and how different % of them interact with different % of the non-smokers and how that applys to both newly divided groups as a whole.....smokers now are loosing their rights as fast as they can and seem powerless to do anything about it...which is th enatur eof their dysfunction (not gonna take this one any further) suffice it to say that we are all now smokers, and non-smokers who need something done for their protection.

I own firearms, and once again some % of ppl as a whole use them in such a way that another % of ppl feel the need to fight their presence and effect. The firearms owners psuedo-unify and lobby to fight the legislation with legislation and buerocracy with buerocracy....but its still the same overall social division based on the actions of ppl who HAVE firearms in their possession. Suddenly we are gun-owners and NON-gunowners who feel that something must be done for their safety.

Then you have my snakes. I was mortified to find that the very same scenario playingout here. Suddenly its the reptile-owners and the non-reptile owners...course we also have further division. The repitle collector/breeder and the anti-collection/breeding crowd. So if you have snakes you are bad because it puts your neigbors at risk for envenomation, constriction and salmonella or you are bad because you have captive animals with defacto means you stole them from the wild. Its the same.

now notice a commonality
smokers, for lack of a better word, are "doing" something
ownign firearms is active
owning SUV's is active
owning reptiles is active

all these thinsg are, if nothign else, ACTIONS

therefore, it puts someone at risk and "something must be done about this"

Ladys and gentlemen.
when you DO something you ARE doing something about this
when you burn leaves in your yard you ARE doing something
when you dig up coal you ARE doing something
when you cut down a tree you ARE doing something

the anti's and the "please regulate this" crowds can GO GET FUCKED!

you want to change the way shit happens?
get into it and do it differently

infiltrate and modfy

I know that now will come the crys of "what about all the shit I don't have control of?....what about th eEVIL GREEDY HUMANS who will rob rape and pillage if they are not regulated...thos ewill gladly MURDER mychild and TAKE my job if they aren't policed and patrolled by the gov't"

well, my personal philosophy is that
THEY WILL DO IT ANYWAY!!

if someone wants a bomb on a plane, they will get a bomb on a plane
if they want to shoot you, they will shoot you

schools are not defendable from military style attacks
airports are not defendable from armed terrorists
thats why we built a PEACEFUL society
the way to get a country full of large international airports is to have stability in your society that result sin freedom...not armed guard safety...lots of men with guns in airports all around the world, ask some international flyers how it works in other countries...like turkey

now the question is, are individuals defendable from their own ignorance and fear?

post 9/11 america is for shit so far
but I am going to TRY to change it from the inside

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by Jenny

Remember, that was broadcast just after Sept. 11 (airdate Nov. 8, 2001) and under Clinton's administration at the time.

Uhm . . . Clinton was not in charge that date.

[Jenny]

Mac, try the decaf. Though I agree with you (and am a smoker :) that had absolutely nothing to do with what I was calling your attention to.

You took a sentence out of what I said and ran with it, rather than commenting on the "Frontline" program, about the danger of Saddam, that I was referring to. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/script.html)

All I meant was that as an example, back then news stories were falling all over themselves to say that something needed to be done about airport security. Now something has been done.

At the same time, this "Frontline" program called for the removal of Saddam, (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/script.html) even though at the time the idea of thousands of American troops massing at Iraq's borders to do just that was inconceivable.

I should have just said;

Hey! Read this! Waddaya think? (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/script.html)

PS: Pianomahn, thanks for your opinion on the article. That was insightful and eloquent, and pointed out things that I hadn't noticed.

Oh wait, you obviously didn't read it. Never mind.

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by Jenny

PS: Pianomahn, thanks for your opinion on the article. That was insightful and eloquent, and pointed out things that I hadn't noticed.

Oh wait, you obviously didn't read it. Never mind.

Don't be a butthead.

You said, and I quote, "Remember, that was broadcast just after Sept. 11 (airdate Nov. 8, 2001) and under Clinton's administration at the time."

Clinton was not the President at the air date. So what are you being all sarcastic about?

[morgana]

<font color="lime">shhhhh... i'm trying to read about how bush and his administration have been trying to go to war with saddam hussein because he's obviously an easier target than bin laden. after all, we know what part of the country saddam is in.

/sarcasm</font>

[Jenny]

Originally posted by Pianomahnn
Don't be a butthead.

You said, and I quote, "Remember, that was broadcast just after Sept. 11 (airdate Nov. 8, 2001) and under Clinton's administration at the time."

Clinton was not the President at the air date. So what are you being all sarcastic about?

Because I'm a sarcastic bitch, in case you haven't figured it out yet. And ever since this Iraq deal has come up (again), I've been torn between the information that I got from the program (that you didn't bother to read) and the lousy way GW is going about it, pissing the world off at us at the same time.

I still fervently believe it needs to be done, but I also think undoing four decades of diplomacy, especially in the middle East, is just a stupid way to go about it.

I just wanted to get someone else's take on it, but true to message board mayhem, the only thing anybody has commented on was what I said in asking them to check it out. At least you didn't go off like Mac, that was hilarious. He just misread part of one sentence and went to town, without bothering to read the damn thing either. (Or at least commenting on it.)

So I made a mistake, big deal. You caught it, whoop-de-do for you.

I also offered the option of people posting pictures of their genitals. I can understand why you didn't bother to do that, either. Too bad, at least there would have been one tiny thing in this thread to laugh at.

(<-sarcasm again--<<)

My bad.

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by Jenny
Because I'm a sarcastic bitch, in case you haven't figured it out yet. And ever since this Iraq deal has come up (again), I've been torn between the information that I got from the program (that you didn't bother to read) and the lousy way GW is going about it, pissing the world off at us at the same time.

I still fervently believe it needs to be done, but I also think undoing four decades of diplomacy, especially in the middle East, is just a stupid way to go about it.

I just wanted to get someone else's take on it, but true to message board mayhem, the only thing anybody has commented on was what I said in asking them to check it out. At least you didn't go off like Mac, that was hilarious. He just misread part of one sentence and went to town, without bothering to read the damn thing either. (Or at least commenting on it.)

So I made a mistake, big deal. You caught it, whoop-de-do for you.

I also offered the option of people posting pictures of their genitals. I can understand why you didn't bother to do that, either. Too bad, at least there would have been one tiny thing in this thread to laugh at.

(<-sarcasm again--<<)

My bad.

Was that whole post horseshit (except the "my bad" portion), or should I take time to actually rebute things?

[Jenny]

Actually, right on all counts. The whole post was horseshit, you should take time to actually rebut things (but only the article from Frontline, that is what this thread is about after all), and feel free to give me a bunch of sarcastic crap in return for the stuff I just dumped on your head.

Sincerely, I have no qualms about people giving me shit, especially on message boards. I'm no tender flower, usually. I was coming back here to kinda apologize in case I hurt your feelings, but I'm glad your attitude seems to be that you're okay with it. I didn't mean to insult you personally, needle-dick. I'm just frustrated because this group can't manage to read the Frontline article and discuss it, for some reason, and it is really important to me.

Let's put it this way, I don't mind if nobody reads my drivel, as long as they read the Frontline article. You can call me an idiot if you want, but for the time being, until people start talking about the revelations contained within that program, at least I'm more well-informed than you.

I've also had a cold for a couple of days that's really pissing me off. Usually I'm a goddess of kindness and light. Really.

[mdavis113]

Jenny,
From your original post I gather that
As war with Iraq looms, [You] find this is [important]...
This is what [You're] talking about.
"Something needs to be done."

I read the link you <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/script.html">provided</a>
and refer you to this <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gulf/script_b.html"> one</a>

The perception that "something needs to be done" is not new. The question we're left with today is "why didn't we allow it to be done the first time around"?
I'll step back and let you weigh in with your perceptions first.

[Barbie]

*that* is a hard read...

What was the point?

That Saddam needs to be taken out?

That the US Gov't were cowards before Dubya stepped up to the plate?

I'm confused.

Explain.

Barbie

[Uberwonder]

Originally posted by Jenny
I didn't mean to insult you personally, needle-dick.


You know he gets a toothpick when you call him that.

[Barbie]

What's with all this bullshit about SUV's...
SUV'S SUV'S SUV'S
Fuck, get off of it and start bullshitting about Large Trucks..

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/pkup-01.htm

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/suv-01.htm

[Jenny]

Barbie, you need to check your dosage. This thread isn't about SUV's.

While we're at it, I'll restate the sentence that seems to have derailed this whole damned thread;

"About a year or two ago, before 9-11, there was a lot in the news about lax airport security. EVERY NEWS STORY ABOUT IT concluded with a sort of "somebody should do something about it" attitude. "

There. At least I feel better about giving birth to such a deformed retarded thread. I still wish I'd have just said "hey! Read this frontline article. Waddaya think?

[morgana]

<font color="lime">fuck. why don't YOU discuss the article and maybe people will fall in line to discuss their viewpoint on it? you seem to have gone off on a tangent about...reading the article. which shouldn't be the only thing you have to say, right?</font>