Fucked up.

[Billyman]

I saw this on the news last night:

Can you imagine, traveling thousands of miles, settling in, only for the reason of having your child admitted into a top hospital (equivolant to a five star hotel as far as hospitals go), to save his/her life and this shit happens? Accidents happen I know but damn.

Fucked up. (http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGADIA1CBCD.html)

DURHAM, N.C. (AP) - A teenager from Mexico whose family moved to the United States so she could get a heart and lung transplant was near death Monday after mistakenly receiving organs from a donor with a different blood type.
"This was a tragic error, and we accept responsibility for our part," said Dr. William Fulkerson, chief executive officer of Duke University Hospital, in a statement released Monday night. "This is an especially sad situation since we intended this operation to save the life of a girl whose prognosis was grave."

Jesica Santillam, 17, suffers from a heart deformity that prevents her lungs from pumping enough oxygen into her blood. After a three-year wait, she received a transplant on Feb. 7 with a heart and lungs flown in from Boston.

Jesica remained in critical condition Monday, a hospital spokesman said. Mack Mahoney, a family friend, said she was not expected to live more than a few days.

The heart and lungs flown from Boston to Durham 10 days ago were sent with paperwork correctly listing the donor's blood type, said Sean Fitzpatrick of the New England Organ Bank, which sent the organs.

Somehow, the type-A organs were transplanted into the 17-year-old with type O-positive blood.

Duke Hospital officials initially refused to elaborate on the mix-up, but Mahoney, who has legal authority to participate in Jesica's medical care, said the girl's family was told a "clerical error" allowed her name to come up on a list of possible recipients.

[MrsKol]

I just heard about this and thought how terrible this would be. How I would be really pissed about it if it happened to me or my kids.

[Venus]

That is truely sad. I'd say sue the Hospital, but if wouldn't bring her back, so there's really no point. I wish there was someone to point the finger at and blame, but that would do no good either. Just a stupid mistake that will probably cost this girl her life, and her parents much grief.

[Mudflap]

I was born at that hospital.

[Billyman]

And you turned out so well. :rolleyes:

:p:p:p

[Mudflap]

Point taken. I should sue.

[Pianomahnn]

No.

We should sue for having to deal with you.

[disturbed]

I have a question about this.

Is her family legal? Is this something that we are paying for?
I pray for this young girls life, but I also believe that we should take care of our own people first.

(I really am a nice person, promise)

[Pianomahnn]

I'm under the assumption these are actual citizens, or are legal in whatever other ways possible.

This sort of botched surgey doesn't seem like something an alien can afford, nor someone without insurance.

So, they're either legal and are rightful recipients of this medical (fucked up) care, or they won the lotto from a lotto ticket paid for by illegal dollars.

Or something.

[SimpleSimon]

http://www.rr.com/v5/1/news/frame/0,2252,90~cnn~1~183166,00.html

Things sometimes do improve.

Teen's second transplant surgery completed

Doctors on Thursday completed a transplant of a heart and lungs into a critically ill teenager who was clinging to life after previously receiving a set of organs with the wrong blood type.

The re-transplant procedure at Duke University Hospital in Durham, North Carolina, began around 5:30 a.m. EST Thursday, family spokesman Mack Mahoney said.

Jesica Santillan first underwent transplant surgery February 7 at Duke, but she was given organs with type A blood that did not match her type O-positive blood. Her body immediately began to reject the organs.

Jesica needed the transplant because of a heart deformity that kept her lungs from getting oxygen into her blood.

The 17-year-old has a 50 percent chance of survival in the second operation, doctors say. She showed signs of recovery on Wednesday, said a spokeswoman for a foundation set up in Jesica's name.

"Yesterday the CAT scan results were clearly insignificant, not showing any brain damage to speak of," Jesica's Hope Chest spokeswoman Renee McCormick said. "She did squint her eyes when her mother asked her ... if she could hear her." A CAT scan, now called CT, uses multiple X-ray images to construct views of organs.

The organs for Thursday's operation had been donated in Jesica's name, the spokeswoman said, although it was not clear exactly how they became available.

Doctors told the family the heart and lungs are "an incredibly good match," McCormick said.

Without the operation, Jesica had no chance for survival. Doctors had been skeptical that a match could be found, because it requires organs with the proper blood type that fit into her chest cavity.

"Those are very rare events. We are just hoping and praying that this will occur," Dr. William Fulkerson, the chief executive officer of Duke University Hospital, told CNN's "Connie Chung Tonight" hours before doctors learned of the match.

"She is critically ill now. She is requiring tremendous advance support to support her. We do not think she will survive without a re-transplant."

Fulkerson said the transplant staff believed it was using matching organs at the time of the operation, but "that was incorrect." The hospital has launched an investigation and has implemented safeguards to prevent such errors in the future.

"I am heartbroken about what happened to Jesica," her surgeon, Dr. James Jaggers said. "My focus has been on providing her with the heart and lungs she needs so she could lead a normal life."

Jaggers reported he performed the transplant on the assumption that the blood type match had been confirmed prior to surgery, Duke University's Web site said.

"Early in the morning of February 7, I received a call from Carolina Donor Services and was informed of available organs," he said. "I assumed that after providing Jesica's name to the organ procurement organization ... that the organs were compatible."

"I informed Jesica's parents immediately after the operation...that this was an incompatible transplant," Jaggers said.

Magdalena Santillan said her daughter is fighting for her life.

"I am very angry at the moment, but the priority right now is for her to get a new transplant because the days are going by and she's losing her life," she said, speaking through an interpreter on "Connie Chung Tonight."

Her mother said her daughter had looked forward to the transplant to "start her life," but shortly before the procedure she expressed apprehension about it.

Family spokesman Mahoney said he was devastated by the mistaken transplant.

"This child was like my grandkid," Mahoney said. "When she emerged from the operation, she had already started rejecting and she was critical."

Of the hospital staff, he said "They told us there had been a mistake, and there had been a clerical error and Jesica had received type A organs. ... The doctor took full responsibility. He said that it was his mistake, he should've typed the organs but he failed to do so."

Anne Paschke, spokeswoman at United Network for Organ Sharing, said there are critical shortages of organ donors through the United States and finding a donor for a heart-lung procedure is an uphill battle.

UNOS administers the nation's only organ procurement and transplantation network.

Paschke said that according to the latest statistics, in 2001 and 2002 there were only 55 heart-lung transplants nationwide, and as of February 7, there were 197 people on the waiting list for the procedure.

[Billyman]

Good deally. Thanks for the follow up Simon.

You can bet your ass there is a lot of EXTRA, EXTRA attention being payed to this girl now by the hospital and the doctors.

It's good to be able to cover your mistakes successfully. Hmm, I wonder what the bill will look like now.

[SimpleSimon]

There won't be one, I bet.

[disturbed]

What made her so special to get a second chance? Most people would just be shit out of luck. People wait years for organs and there is no way they would ever get 2 sets.

[Koliedrus]

Media attention, potential malpractice lawsuits (that would/will certainly be won)...

My dad had angioplasti and was rushed out of the hospital soon after. He died days later. We stopped paying his bill, naturally. When the hospital called to collect, mom simply said, "My husband is dead. We buried him Christmas Day."

That was the end of that.

[SimpleSimon]

What made her so special?

A very good question indeed. Read the article - the second set of organs transplanted into her were donated specifically in her name.

Most curious. There are a large number of different antigenic factors that go into making a transplant a good choice. In addition, the organs must fit - they must be of the correct size to operate properly in the recipients body.

I wonder.

[SatansLeftHand]

anybody seen the latest clint eastwood movie?

[Billyman]

Welp, she's only moments away from being declared "brain-dead".

Word has it, the doctors (hospital) waited to long before trying to correct their little mistake. Probably spent too much time on a possible "cover-up".

That's going to be one huge law-suit.

Haven't found a link yet.

[Escape Artist]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/02/21/transplant.error/index.html

[SimpleSimon]

Well, she obviously isn't going to make it. Can we expect two kidney recipients, a liver recipient, and corneal transplants, perhaps burn victim's (certainly no shortage of those) to benefit from her organs in the next few days?

Bet she isn't a donor.

[Koliedrus]

Thoughts to the child. The rest can be scrutinized later.

Rest well, Jesica.

[disturbed]

From various news sources:

Jesica had a heart deformity that kept her lungs from getting oxygen into her blood. Relatives have said her family paid a smuggler to bring them from their small town near Guadalajara, Mexico, to the United States so she could get medical care.
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48862-2003Feb22.html)

Also,
Jesica's place on the list was determined by several factors, including the severity of her illness and her age.

Her immigration status played no role because hospitals may place non-U.S. citizens on their waiting lists and must give them the same priority as citizens, said Anne Paschke, spokeswoman for the organ network. But they cannot perform more than five per cent of their transplants on non-citizens.

Heart and lung transplants are rare for teenagers: in the first 11 months of 2002, there were four for children between the ages of 11 and 17, UNOS' records show. The previous year, there were four.
(http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1035778079270&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154)


Lawsuit? How is it right to sue when the hospital probably absorbed the cost of everything in the first place? People fuck up, doctors fuck up. I'm just sorry that it had to happen to her.

[Koliedrus]

Her dealings with this are over (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=3&cid=578&u=/nm/20030223/ts_nm/health_girl_dc).

DURHAM, N.C. (Reuters) - Doctors at Duke University Hospital on Saturday declared dead and removed from life support the Mexican teenager who had a second heart-lung transplant this week after she was initially given a set of incompatible organs.

Her death, if not her life, will make history.

Moment of silence....























Unleash the hounds.

[ms. bing]

*snip* well she obviously isn't going to make it *snip*
*snip* bet she isn't a doner *snip*
YOU POMPOUS FUCKING ASSHOLE!!!!!!!!
The world was just witness to the death of a child and this is the only thing you have to say?? SHUT THE FUCK UP!


HYGILIAC made this post and anyone with a problem about it can fill free to PM me ill be more than happy to respond,

[SimpleSimon]

You put it in public, you can read the reply in public. Another one bites the dust. Perhaps a small tragedy, but hardly earth shaking.

You don't like what I have to say, too fucking bad.

[Billyman]

Simon, I'm not jumping your shit or anything by any means. And with all due respect. What if I gave you the same attitude about your murdered wife?

[SimpleSimon]

Billy, I've already heard it. And the two situations are hardly comparable.

But like I said above, if you don't like what I have too say, to fucking bad. If I don't like what you have to say, to fucking bad for me.

[Billyman]

And he's a grown up kids. You can learn so much.

[SimpleSimon]

Sure can - you too, billy.

[Billyman]

Silent post for the young lady, family and friends.

[Hygiliak]

I made the post public and i read the reply.
I thought you of all people had more heart. I was wrong!
the two being different? only in your mind.
If a person can't fell for the loss of a child HE can't fell for the loss of anyone!
She didn't choose the place or the cause. We who are supposed to be the adults of the world should at least be able to see that !
Im sorry that you have no fellings left but i pray that the rest of us do.

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by Hygiliak
I made the post public and i read the reply.
I thought you of all people had more heart. I was wrong!
the two being different? only in your mind.
If a person can't fell for the loss of a child HE can't fell for the loss of anyone!
She didn't choose the place or the cause. We who are supposed to be the adults of the world should at least be able to see that !
Im sorry that you have no fellings left but i pray that the rest of us do.

You clearly do not know me nearly as well as your post would indicate you think you do. I have a lot of compassion, and empathy, and regard for my fellow man. Where and how I choose to apply those is entirely my decision. I feel sorry for the girls family, but I believe this entire case has been a travesty through and through. Error upon error compounding error.

As for "the two being different", indeed thay are so. If you cannot see that difference, perhaps you are the one who is blind and insensitive. Your privilege.

Certainly she did not choose the place or cause. Most do not have that opportunity.

[Koliedrus]

"earth shaking" indeed it is.

Regardless of the circumstances, we're talking about a Heart-Lung Transplant here. That's a major fuck-up!

This is a medical "Columbia" if there ever was one. It's not just a matter of this one child's life. Procedures are obviously faulty and it takes something like this to FORCE the fact that medical institutions are facing cutbacks that cannot be absorbed.

[SimpleSimon]

"Earthshaking"? No.

This error was result of a human system....by it's very nature prone to error. It will result in changes, there is little doubt of that, just as the events with Columbia will, just as the Challenger disaster did.

All human errors result in lessons. Most are individual, and often not even noticed. Some affect massive numbers of people, as this one may. I think it more likely it will affect relatively few people.

As to the "fact that medical institutions are facing cutbacks that cannot be absorbed.", there is no evidence of which I am aware that such is a factor here. While that may well be true, and certainly I believe it is, how does it have bearing?

[Koliedrus]

I may not be seeing this clearly since a friend of mine recently had surgery on his shoulder. On his left arm, someone wrote "Rite".

On his right, "Rong".

Thankfully, the messages were clear enough for the surgeon but imagine my friend's anxiety when he saw that.

If a surgeon is to be expected to perform an operation as complicated as a heart-lung transplant (a medical miracle, in my eyes), said surgeon should at least have enough training to double check blood types. The medical system is being stretched to it's limits just as any other layoff-happy corporation. The cost of cutting corners is now coming to light.

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by Koliedrus
I may not be seeing this clearly since a friend of mine recently had surgery on his shoulder. On his left arm, someone wrote "Rite".

On his right, "Rong".

Thankfully, the messages were clear enough for the surgeon but imagine my friend's anxiety when he saw that.

If a surgeon is to be expected to perform an operation as complicated as a heart-lung transplant (a medical miracle, in my eyes), said surgeon should at least have enough training to double check blood types. The medical system is being stretched to it's limits just as any other layoff-happy corporation. The cost of cutting corners is now coming to light.

I can understand your concern here, but re-read the article I posted in this thread on page one - I quote in part:

Without the operation, Jesica had no chance for survival. Doctors had been skeptical that a match could be found, because it requires organs with the proper blood type that fit into her chest cavity.

"Those are very rare events. We are just hoping and praying that this will occur," Dr. William Fulkerson, the chief executive officer of Duke University Hospital, told CNN's "Connie Chung Tonight" hours before doctors learned of the match.

"She is critically ill now. She is requiring tremendous advance support to support her. We do not think she will survive without a re-transplant."

Fulkerson said the transplant staff believed it was using matching organs at the time of the operation, but "that was incorrect." The hospital has launched an investigation and has implemented safeguards to prevent such errors in the future.

"I am heartbroken about what happened to Jesica," her surgeon, Dr. James Jaggers said. "My focus has been on providing her with the heart and lungs she needs so she could lead a normal life."

Jaggers reported he performed the transplant on the assumption that the blood type match had been confirmed prior to surgery, Duke University's Web site said.

"Early in the morning of February 7, I received a call from Carolina Donor Services and was informed of available organs," he said. "I assumed that after providing Jesica's name to the organ procurement organization ... that the organs were compatible."

"I informed Jesica's parents immediately after the operation...that this was an incompatible transplant," Jaggers said.

Clearly human error compounding human error, but I see nothing here suggesting that monetary factors were a part of those errors. Perhaps they were, but there is no evidence of such.

[Koliedrus]

Call it a hunch, then. I'll buy you a Sprite if I'm wrong.

I'm still learning (http://www.4jhc.org/jhcstory.html).

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by Koliedrus
Call it a hunch, then. I'll buy you a Sprite if I'm wrong.

I'm still learning (http://www.4jhc.org/jhcstory.html).

Let me know when that Sprite is coming - I prefer diet sodas.

I fail to see anything in this link that in anyway supports the position you have taken vis-a-vis financial considerations having any impact on decisions taken in this case.

[disturbed]

What's sad is the reaction of people when something like this occurs. People die, it's a fact of life. You have no choice but to accept it. It's ok to be hurt, to feel sorry for someone when something like this happens. But the outcry of "foul" and "lawsuit" and everyone being "upset" and personally "hurt" is wrong. Money won't bring the girl back, it won't make everything right. It's all for personal gain. People want attention so they will march and protest againsts things that they do not fully understand.

Take a look at your feelings now, in 2 months most people will forget all about this. That is the real tradegy.

[ms. bing]

here is what i have to say (this is really me, by the way)
my daughter's father was a pre-med student at ut austin. he would go days on end without sleep due to grueling classes and high grade expectations. when i would ask him about not getting more rest, he would tell me he better get used to it, because in med school, particularly his internship, he would be expected to work 18-24 hours without sleep and maintain high grades as well.
this country has laws that make it illegal for truck drivers to work more than 8 or 10 hours without sleep. but we will let and expect our doctors, nurses, and the interns and aides that work for them work up to 48 hours with little more than a few hour long breaks. these people care for us, our families, our loved ones, and when they make mistakes due to exhaustion they get sued. money is not going to fix this problem, unless that money is used to make sure more medical professionals have the time off they need so that when they see me or my daughter they are well rested and ready to give us all the attention we deserve.

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by SimpleSimon
Well, she obviously isn't going to make it. Can we expect two kidney recipients, a liver recipient, and corneal transplants, perhaps burn victim's (certainly no shortage of those) to benefit from her organs in the next few days?

Bet she isn't a donor.

The statement above is what precipitated the shit-slinging in this thread:

Here's the answer:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49328-2003Feb22.html

Jesica Santillan, the teenager who survived a botched heart-lung transplant long enough to get an odds-shattering second set of donated organs, died Saturday afternoon.

Jesica was declared brain dead at 1:25 p.m., and taken off life-support machines at about 5 p.m., said Duke University Medical Center spokesman Richard Puff.

Earlier Saturday, a lawyer for the 17-year-old's family said they would not agree to remove her from life-support until they were allowed to get an outside doctor's opinion on her condition. Puff said he did not know if the hospital had the Santillans' consent to turn off the machines.

He said the family declined to donate any organs from Jesica's body, including the heart and lungs that had been donated to her in an operation Thursday. He did not know if those organs had been in any condition to use in a second transplant.

I am not surprised.

[Mudflap]

That's f-ed up.

Hey, what's the name of this thread again?

[Hygiliak]

I know you SIMON all to very well.
In you i had hoped to find a person not only of intellegence and analitical ability but one of thought and life.
Iam sad to see that life is something that you have given up on.
Not suprised just sad.
Life has such great value to be treated so cheaply.

[SimpleSimon]

Originally posted by Hygiliak
I know you SIMON all to very well.
In you i had hoped to find a person not only of intellegence and analitical ability but one of thought and life.
Iam sad to see that life is something that you have given up on.
Not suprised just sad.
Life has such great value to be treated so cheaply.

Once again, you do not know me as well as you think. Given up on life? Hardly.

I enjoyed your company and conversation the two times I have been able to meet you, and would welcome further opportunities to get to know you better. We are two very different men, who have had very different experiences of life, although we certainly also share many commonalities.

Read what I have posted these last 17 months on the tribe. They are honest posts, and will tell you a great deal about me. I read your words with interest always.

I have an ongoing interest in life, or I would have ended it by now. It is that interest that has prevented me from hunting down and killing a man. It is that interest that led me to invite my son to move to Houston, and reside with me. That same interest brought my niece Mae to my home, and to the Tribe. It is my interest in my life, and those of others, that have led me to invite EA into my home.

I am depressed a good bit of the time, but I recognize that and am well able to deal with it.

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but it is sorely mistaken.