And They Call It Terror

[SimpleSimon]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/02/17/chicago.nightclub/index.html


<Center>Chicago club stampede kills at least 21
Monday, February 17, 2003 Posted: 1:00 PM EST (1800 GMT)</center>


CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- At least 21 people were killed and 19 others critically injured when hundreds of panicked nightclub patrons rushed to escape after a disturbance early Monday, police said.

Police said the rush for the doors occurred after security guards used pepper spray and Mace to break up a fight between patrons at E2, a nightclub above Epitome, a restaurant on the city's South Side.

"There was a disturbance or altercation in the bar ... some sort of stampede occurred," said Police Officer Ozzie Rodriguez.

At least 11 people were being treated for less serious injuries.

Fumes caused some of the 500 to 1,000 patrons to vomit or pass out and others scrambled to get down the club's single open staircase leading outside, according to Chicago Fire Department Cmdr. Will Knight.

Many of the victims were trampled or crushed as they rushed to exit the club.

"They were all coming out the front door," Knight told CNN Radio. "Our firefighters had to cut the door open from the rear of the building."

Knight said the area was being treated as a crime scene.

Survivors told horror stories. "Everybody smashed; people crying, couldn't breathe," patron Reggie Clark told The Associated Press. "Two ladies next to me died. A guy under me passed out."

Hospital officials said some of the victims died of cardiac arrest.

Cory Thomas, 33, said he was waiting outside the club with friends when the stampede occurred, according to the AP.

"You could see a mound of people," Thomas told the AP. "People were stacking on top of each other, screaming and gagging, I guess from the pepper spray. The door got blocked because there were too many people stacked up against it.

"I saw them taking out a pregnant woman," Thomas said. "She was in bad shape. I saw at least 10 lifeless bodies."

Some club patrons opened doors and went into broom closets. Apparently there was only one way down from the second level to the first, contributing to the problem.

Firefighters had to pull trampled bodies out of stairwells.

"They're stuck in the hallway. They literally can't move," a panicked patron told police.

"She's not breathing. She's not breathing," a man called to medics as he helped load the limp body of a woman into the back of an ambulance.

The incident began around 3 a.m. CST (4 a.m. EST). The nightclub is at 24th Street and South Michigan Avenue.

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson said he and his associates were visiting area hospitals helping to identify victims for family members.


Incidents like this have been happening ever since people have had buildings - hell, I bet there were panics in caves 100,000 years ago that resulted in deaths.

The reason I have posted this here is simple - when you (as a government) heighten the tension and the apprehension in the populace to unreasonable levels by bogus "alerts", and issue idiotic advisories for wariness of and how to deal with gas attacks, results such as the tragedy described above become inevitable.

[Growing_Mystery]

:O

[ms. bing]

originally posted by simon
when you (as a government) heighten the tension and the apprehension in the populace to unreasonable levels by bogus "alerts", and issue idiotic advisories for wariness of and how to deal with gas attacks, results such as the tragedy described above become inevitable.

:werd:

[Barbie]

What a horrible thing to happen.

[MAC]

don't worry dude, jessie jackson is on the scene

as for night club stampedes....have you heard the music they play in these clubs?
I'd kill ppl trying to get out of there too, starting with the dj.

[Mae]

There were riots on a Friday the thirteenth at a club that I used to go to in Portland called Onyx. There was one staircase up top and it was the reverse of what happened at the other club, everyone ran up the stairs, peoplescrambled for footing in chunk heels and open toes got smashed in their sandals. We were up top anyway, I had gotten a tip from one of the guards that that was where we needed to be. No pepper spray but some very scared teens. I hope never to do that again.

[Hygiliak]

Our desire to punish politicians aside WHO was running this club??
enough pepper spray to cause people to pass out ?
christ if that is the way they handle a fight best not to ever come to TEXAS!
ran a club for some time one saturday 40 plus oil workers right off the gulf decide to fight. ONE baseball bat , one bar tender, and four bouncers and the riot was over.
A couple busted heads but no deaths
This is ridiculious!!!
this isn't about terrorist alerts this is about supidity!

[simiantics]

"The smaller women were getting pushed and stamped on because the bigger guys were really trying to make headway to get out the door, but once they came to the main entrance it just kind of like got stuck,"

And they say chivalry is dead...

[MrsKol]

Yeah, I noticed that too, simiantics

[Asmodeus]

And people say "the mob intellect" is dead.

I second the motion for stupidity. And there are those that wonder why I don't like people and crowds.

[Solstice_Gray]

Idiots are not an endangered species.

[zim]

Heh... "Breaking News"

Seems this club had already been ordered closed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22003-2003Feb17.html
The club was not allowed to be operating, due to this exact problem it seems.

The nightclub where 21 people were killed and 55 injured in a stampede was operating in violation of a months-old court order meant to close it down, city authorities said Monday.

"The owner knows damn well that he is not to open that second floor facility," Fire Commissioner James Joyce said.

Joyce said fire department inspectors visited the first-floor restaurant, known as Epitome, in October, but did not visit the second-floor nightclub, known as E2, because they had no reason to suspect it was operating.

The nightclub has been cited for repeated building code violations and the city has been sparring in court with the owners of the nightclub since July 2002, officials said. An attorney for the city of Chicago said the city plans to go to court as early as Tuesday to seek criminal contempt charges against the owner.

There were reports that as many as 1,500 people were crammed into the second-floor club when someone sprayed Mace or pepper spray to quell a fight about 2 a.m. Monday, touching off the stampede.

Witnesses described a frenzied scene: Some people were trying to climb through the ceiling while others were trampled in the frantic rush for an exit, their faces and bodies flattened against the glass front door.

Some people fainted on the club floor. Others were coughing and crying, gagging and blindly groping for any way out.

Police Commissioner Terry Hillard said investigators were trying to sort out conflicting stories about the source of the Mace or pepper spray and obtain videotape from inside the club. Witnesses said the spray may have come from the club's security guards trying to break up a fight between at least two women.

"Lives were tragically and senselessly lost, pinned down by a stampeding crowd," Hillard said.

"We will get to the bottom of this," he said. "Right now our investigation is at full tilt."

[Mudflap]

People who frequent these clubs are ridiculous. They over indulge in alcohol, X, and prolly everything else. The women are there to get their slut groove on and sexually frustrate as many men as possible. The men are there to target women as potential semen recepticles. The whole scene reeks of dishonesty, malice, insincerity, apathy, reprobation, and immorality. I've known a few individuals I held in high regard that actually liked being in these enviornments and it baffles me to this day.

I'm not surprised that these fucks would kill each other in a panic. I avoid these dance clubs/drug dens/trash magnets like the plague.

[SimpleSimon]

I did not intend to lay the blame for this tragedy at the feet of the government directly by my post, rather to point out that the "heightened" sensitivity of the populace to issues regarding gas may well have exacerbated the response. Truly, man in the herd oftimes is a mindless beast, given to panic.

[Koliedrus]

In other words:

*spritz*

"AAAAA! Chemical attack! TeH War has started!"

I get it. Still sad.

[Barbie]

Originally posted by Mudflap
The women are there to get their slut groove on and sexually frustrate as many men as possible. The men are there to target women as potential semen recepticles.

I'm not surprised that these fucks would kill each other in a panic. I avoid these dance clubs/drug dens/trash magnets like the plague.

Interesting comment.

[Mudflap]

Originally posted by Barbie


Interesting comment.

If you disagree, please feel free to say so.

[Barbie]

I don't know if I agree or disagree. I know that your choice of words were colourful.

[Mudflap]

Orange font rules.

[Barbie]

:P

[Cruise Director]

When I read muddy's post, I picture the "church lady" from SNL giving that speech. Priceless. :D

[Mudflap]

Well, isn't that special?

[Pianomahnn]

Some of the people who were killed were parents. Many with infants and toddlers at home.

What the fuck are you doing at a night club at 2am when you've got little kids you just birthed at home? Fuckin' ho bags.

[Barbie]

don't spewww ignorance.

"fuckin'ho bags"

What the hell kinda comment is that? People are dead--ya, they were careless, but shit...life is lost.

Fuck

[simiantics]

On one side [some of] these judgements seem hypo~critical (in jest or no); on the other side, if people are going to spew bullshit about me when I die I hope it's negative (especially if I died for something stupid like that) because I'd much rather be falsely criticized than falsely praised.

[Barbie]

silence says more than any sound uttered, mumbled, gurgled or flung...

[Pianomahnn]

3 weeks old.

Don't go clubbin' with a recent fetus turned child.

There were women who got injured that were 6 months pregnant. Yippe kai yea. Give me a f'n break.

I have my own criticisms, and I'll stick with it.

That club isn't a gathering place for "high class individuals" either. My comment probably wasn't very off, if at all.

[simiantics]

You're probably not that far off? You propably have a lot to learn about diversity, circumstance, and empathy.

Not that I'm any better. I see judgement, but little criticism, thus hypo critical.

[Barbie]

Pianomahn, you lack compassion and exhume (in your type) this lack of "high class" that you speak of, of those that died.

Who gives a rats ass that they weren't as moral as you..they were still people...now dead.

BTW: Don't speak, unless your words can only improve on silence.

[Pianomahnn]

Fuck you. I'll speak when I want to.

I don't think it's right to be clubbin' when you're 6 months pregnant.

I don't think it's right to be clubbin' with a 3 week old child at home.

Yes, it sucks these children have now lost their mother or father, but making poor decisions can lead to bad outcomes. This club has a history of being a bad place. They've had to mace people many times and have had to call the police (these are for situations which got out of security guard control) 80+ times in the past 2 years.

[Barbie]

your classin' all these ppl in onr group... fuck ho'bags...

1 person pregnant
1 person w/ child @ home
dozens dead

fuck you

[simiantics]

Fuck you. I'll speak when I want to.

I didn't say you shouldn't speak, nor did I imply it. I said you lack criticism. Just to be clear, I have the same privelage.

They have to call the police at lots of clubs, but twenty-one people don't die everytime now do they? In fact I'd imagine that one person doesn't die in general. Why, you've said it yourself, "They've had to mace people many times" but macing people hasn't lead to mass deaths, so maybe going to a club doesn't mean death. Maybe not everybody knows this club's reputation. Perhaps a friend said let's go out, and that's where they ended up. Perhaps they thought they could go to a club and not be killed. Perhaps they made a bad call. Perhaps you don't know shit about those people's lives, what motivated them to be there, or what kind of parents they were.

Look at you: I make a comment on your actions and how I see them to your face no less, and you come back with "Fuck you." So if I understand correctly, you can judge them, but if I want to judge you, then fuck me. Well for those who would have wanted to say it, but no longer can, "Fuck you, they'll live as they please... without you calling them down for it." (although I guess they won't do much of the living part now).

I have no objection to anyone saying what they said, but if I want to comment on it, i'd like you to understand why I feel justified doing so... and if you don't, well I guess you don't have to.

[Pianomahnn]

No, you're classin' all these people in one group.

I called the parents ho-bags.

And it's not dozens dead. It's 21, I believe. Dozens would signify 24 or more. But that's irrelevent, I didn't include those other deceased in my ho-bag group.

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by simiantics
. . .

Dude. I didn't say that to you. Barbie told me not to peak unless words can only improve on silence.

That pissed me off. Someone telling me when when to speak in a public forum. How sad.

[Barbie]

Fuck you pianomahn...don't be a half wit.

and excuse me for being 3 off of 2 dozen (fucking technical eh?)

And you implied that all those people were ho' bags...not parents..all of them.

You Pianomahn, classed the whole lot of them...you do'nt know one fucking person in that group that died...did you?

[simiantics]

Dude. I didn't say that to you. Barbie told me not to peak unless words can only improve on silence.

Yeah, I kind of missed that. Sorry.

edit: Ummm... I seem to have deleted it. [???] Sorry again.

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by Barbie
Fuck you pianomahn...don't be a half wit.

and excuse me for being 3 off of 2 dozen (fucking technical eh?)

And you implied that all those people were ho' bags...not parents..all of them.

You Pianomahn, classed the whole lot of them...you do'nt know one fucking person in that group that died...did you?

Dozens of people implies just that. Dozens.

I did not imply they were all ho bags. Read what I wrote one more time for the sake of comprehension.

What the fuck are you doing at a night club at 2am when you've got little kids you just birthed at home? Fuckin' ho bags.

And you don't know one fucking person in that group that died either. So who are you to say I'm wrong? Oh, you're not. You have as much a right to think they're genuine examples of extraordinary humans as I have to call them low class whores.

[Cruise Director]

All points well taken. Further arguement should go to the colleseum.

[Pianomahnn]

Yea!!!!