god and school

[laure311]

this is from an online journal entry of someone i know- she is currently in belgium.

<i>God And School.
Coming here from the States to a school where there are frequently signs in the elementary school halls saying "Jesus is the light of the world"...well basically it's a little strange. In the States you're taught that religion and education are separate entities, and by law (in public schools) they cannot be bound. Here, it's different. At one of the assemblies a student council member read this story, and being a person who doesn't really hold religion high in my list of importance, my point of view was questioned by the end of this.

E N J O Y . . .

After being interviewed by the school administration, the eager teaching prospect said, "Let me see if I've got this right. You want me to go into that room with all those kids, and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning. And I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity, modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even censor their t-shirt messages and dress habits. You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self esteem. You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, fair play, how to register to vote, how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job. I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment, recognize signs of anti-social behavior, offer advice, write letters of recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage respect for the cultural diversity of others, and oh, make sure that I give the girls in my class fifty percent of my attention.

"My contract requires me to work on my own time after school, evenings, and weekends grading papers. Also, I must spend my summer vacation at my own expense working towards advanced certification and a Masters degree. And on my own time you want me to attend committee and faculty meeting, PTA meetings, and participate in staff development training. I am to be a paragon of virtue, larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my students into being obedient and respectful of authority. And I am to pledge allegiance to family values and this current administration. You want me to incorporate technology into the learning experience, monitor web sites, and relate personally with each student. That includes deciding who might be potentially dangerous and/or liable to commit a crime in school. I am to make sure all students pass the mandatory state exams, even those who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments. Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental or physical handicap. And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter, telephone, newsletter and report card.

"All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer, a few books, a bulletin board, a big smile AND a starting salary that qualifies my family for food stamps. You want me to do all of this, and yet you expect me not to pray?"
</i>

[Pianomahnn]

I think schools should read from the bible.

I also think they should read from the Qoran (shoot me cuz I'm too ignorant to spell).

Honestly, these books are much better than Romeo and Juliet.

Speration of church and state has gone too far. This coming from a guy who doesn't belive in a god.

[Escape Artist]

You wanna read the Bible, fine by me. You wanna say "God is a fagot," that's fine too. I don't think they should do either. Problem's not the subject matter but selective enforcement...tis a joke.

[morgana]

<font color="lime">the problem with religion in schools is that schools aren't supposed to teach you an opinion of any kind. they're only supposed to show you the tools to form your own opinions.

the fact that they fail at this doesn't change the intent.</font>

[Escape Artist]

Might as well get rid of theoretical sciences, then...all of those are based on beliefs too.

[Kayla]

Originally posted by Pianomahnn
I think schools should read from the bible.

I also think they should read from the Qoran (shoot me cuz I'm too ignorant to spell).

Honestly, these books are much better than Romeo and Juliet.



You've gotta be fucking kidding me...
No, you probably aren't
:rolleyes:

[MAC]

as long as we're on "supposed to" i'll poin tout that you're supposed to get your religious training elsewhere

you are supposed to get to school as young child with th eability to get along and be instructed in the tools you will need to communicate and advance your own mind.

the problem is you get to school with nothing and the STATE has decided what you must know

nothignupset sme more about education than the ridiculous clash of a teacher with one belief not being able to teach a child with another.
that's what I went to school with all they way to college

but lets face it, seperation of church and state started as a tool to keep the money (see political power) out of religion and now the money is what keeps religion out of schools.

too bad, so sad

religion, as a taught concept, has no place in schools
if you can be a good person as ateacher and credit your faith to it, good for you

keep it off the math tests.

(I should have a better reply than this but its late, maybe tomorrow)

[Koliedrus]

Well well well. I always love a good coincidence. Just so happens that this stuff is front page news in my neck of the woods:

Union schools hit with religion-related lawsuit
Action claims student was beaten, harassed for being different

By JENNIFER LAWSON, lawson@knews.com
February 14, 2003

India Tracy came to expect being sent to the principal's office even though she was a well-behaved, straight-A student.

But the Union County youngster knew she'd probably be the only student with "no" written on the permission slip to attend a tent revival during school hours. When she declined to portray Mary in a Christmas play, she also was sent to the principal's office.

India and her parents, Greg and Sarajane Tracy, allege other students taunted her, beat her and ridiculed her religion for years. Fed up with the treatment, her parents filed a federal lawsuit on her behalf Thursday.

The lawsuit claims the Union County school system violated India's civil rights by promoting and endorsing religious activities, denied her right to freely exercise her religion and failed to protect her from harassment and physical and verbal abuse.

The first time the Tracys declined to allow their daughter to attend the two-hour, fundamental Christian services held over three days was in 1999, when she was in the fourth grade. The family had bought 11 acres in Union County because they thought the area was beautiful.

"The principal had called me to the office because mine was the only slip that said no," said India, now 14. "He asked me why I didn't want to go. He asked my religion. I told him I didn't want to talk about it and for him to call my parents."

Sarajane Tracy told the principal that she also did not want to discuss religion because she didn't think it belonged in school, she said. The family could be anything - Buddhist, Jewish or Islamic - and it shouldn't matter, she said. The family follows the ancient religious tradition of Paganism, which embraces kinship with nature, positive morality and acknowledges both the female and male side of Deity, according to the Pagan Federation.

India was the only student left in her class during the Area Wide Crusade in April 1999, so her classmates knew she hadn't gone. The crusade was begun in 1998 by a Union County Baptist pastor and is planned for this April as well.

While declining to comment on the lawsuit, school system Director James Pratt said the ministry rents school buses for transporting the students and some teachers act as chaperones but they must use a personal day to do so.

He referred other questions to Nashville attorney Charles Cagle. Cagle declined comment because he had not seen a copy of the lawsuit Thursday afternoon.

The name-calling and rumor spreading began soon after the 1999 revival, India and her parents said.

Between 1999 and February 2002 when her parents removed her from Horace Maynard Middle School, the lawsuit alleges:


That India was repeatedly called "Satan worshipper," "witch" and other derogatory names. She was accused of eating babies and of being a lesbian because she wasn't a Christian, the lawsuit said.


That India was forced to attend regular Bible study classes during the school day, and urged to lead the school and her class in prayer.

That derogatory names were written on her locker in permanent ink and the school refused to paint over the graffiti or move her locker.

That India was repeatedly attacked as she knelt in front of her bottom-row locker. Her head was bashed at least 10 times, cutting her lip, above her eyes and bloodying her nose.

That a teacher told India to "keep quiet because you'll get in trouble" after she wrote a paper about religious freedom.

That a bus driver regularly asked India in front of other students if she had gone to church yet and if she'd like to come to church.

The Tracys' Knoxville attorney, Margaret Held, said the family did not want to sue. They just wanted their daughter to attend a safe school without persecution.

"They tried being quiet about it and that didn't work," she said. "I would hope that the people in Union County who have been killing their goats and beating up their kid are a minority. If there's one thing that Christ taught, it was tolerance."

During her years at Sharps Chapel Elementary School and later at the middle school, India maintained top-notch grades. She also was one of the few girl players on the football team, played in the band and belonged to the Beta Club and Chess Club.

Her parents pulled her out of public school nearly a year ago, after a friend of hers called to say she'd been suggesting suicide. She was diagnosed with anxiety and has been home-schooled since then.

The suit seeks $300,000 in damages to pay India's tuition to a private school, legal fees and the cost of psychological counseling. The suit also seeks a court prohibition against "the school system's continued religious indoctrination of children."

"Maybe it will be a harsh enough lesson so the next child in Union County who's different can continue through school and graduate and feel safe," Sarajane Tracy said.

[Pianomahnn]

People are such sensitive little pussies today.

I took a world religions class at my PUBLIC community college, and I expected a world religions class. It turned out to be a whole lot of christianity, and not much of anything else. But that's fine. Learning stuff is fine no matter what it is.

The instructor was a born again christian, and was seemingly trying to convert us "non believers" into her ways. I don't care. I'm not going to expect someone to keep something so important to them out of what they do for a living. The same way us non-believers keep god out of our lives during everyday things, the same way the believers should be able keep their god in their lives during everyday things.

But ridicule is another thing. There is no space for religous ridicule in this country. She has a freedom of religion. Those Christians should be slapped for being so cruel. But cruelty towards others is how people handle things they don't understand.

I have no real point here, just rambling stuff.

[MAC]

Maybe I can still sue.
That little girls experience is VERY similar to mine.

Infact I still have one ex-teacher who tells me everytime she sees me that she's going to "save" me.

thats 10 goddamn years later

get fucked Mrs Havens if you HAD a soul you wouldn't be afraid of mine.

[Pianomahnn]

Just know that you're a better person than her. :)

[Solstice_Gray]

Personally, as a student I think that the church and school should be divided but neither oppressed by the other. In saying this I think there should be a specific part of the curriculum that studies all religion. Not just Christianity or Islam, all religion that is within reason to study. (Due to the quantity and variance of religions I understand that it would be impossible to provide even a basic understanding of all religions. By saying all religion I mean the major religions that have and affect on future, current and historic world politics.)

But this sort of thing may produce thinking individuals and thinking individuals are hard to control and people who are hard to control are not likely to follow their leaders without question.

[abs0lutionCFH]

So where does private school fit into this Rat Fuck?

[Barbie]

Originally posted by Pianomahnn
Honestly, these books are much better than Romeo and Juliet.


Why do you think that?

[Barbie]

IMHO there is nothing wrong with teaching religion is it's an elective and age appropriate (meaning that it's choice, not forced) - and if "religion" is going to be taught, than there needs to be diversity and probably the best person to teach this would be a unbiased individual with equal knowledge, no prejudice and most importantly...a hated word...tolerance.

Barbie

[A.D.H.D]

Originally posted by MAC

religion, as a taught concept, has no place in schools



Way to lose all your credibility at once. Nice.

Religion as a taught concept has every place in school, just as the history behind various invasions and civilisations as a taught concept has a place in schools. Learning about the world around us, is vitally important for people attending school, it would be folly to exclude religion from that.

I went to a Christian private school, and they were still very cautious about indoctrination; my teacher was a Christian, but nonetheless remained impartial, about his own religion and others around the world. I think religious indoctrination or even an unbalanced picture (focusing on Christianity or reading prayers in class etc) shouldn’t have any place in public education; if people want to pay for the privilege in private schools good for them, but I struggle to agree that it shouldn’t be taught for as a concept just for knowledge’s sake.

[Barbie]

Originally posted by A.D.H.D
my teacher was a Christian, but nonetheless remained impartial, about his own religion and others around the world.

That's a rarity, or at least something that I have NEVER seen.

It's hard to be impartial about something so passionate.

IMO

[SimpleSimon]

Religious education, as inculcation of a given set of beliefs, belongs in the church, the temple, the synagogue, the mosque, or what have you.

If my tax money supports the place of education, then I most emphatically do NOT want religion taught there or practiced there or used to intimidate or belittle there. I feel that way now, and I felt that way when I was in public school - public school heavily influenced by two mainstream religious groups in the Pacific Northwest - the Catholic's and the Mormon's.

Study of religion in the abstract as philosophical systems is one thing, indoctrination into a particular one of those systems is another. In my experience, no single teacher whose religious views were personally important to them EVER succeeded in teaching about religion as an academic subject without subtle and overt indoctrinative clues.

IMO, religious mythologies and the mind sets they engender are quite possibly the greatest tragedies of humanity's history, and all of mankind would be vastly better off without them.

[A.D.H.D]

Why does religion in school have to be taught by religious people?

It doesn't.


My teacher was maybe a rarity, but he was there to teach not to preach, he knew that, we knew that, there wasn't a problem.

[MAC]

woohoo
I knew my poorly thought out reply would aggrivate someone

(WB adhd) :)

now, I guess the absolution hit it first so i'll clarify:

we have been discussing , by default PUBLIC schools.

(thats what the article was about)

a thousand apologies for not being more specific

but I'll tell you what.....you round up these impartial christians and get them into school teaching positions and I'll take that statement back.

modern christians in the US have the same problem of every other group, they believe in the predjudice against them. Once you think someone hates you because you are christian it doesn't matter what they truely believe.

Till then keep religious dogma OUT of Schools funded ENTIRELY by the tax dollars of the land owners in the district.
Yes, Independant School Districts are private entities (like corporations) who are payed to operate by the state if they meet the state guidelines for academics which are heavily funded by the federal gov't who then passes the buck and all its tainted re-elect-me-agenda-middle-of-the-bell-shaped-curve bullshit back to us.

I am 100% for private schools and religious schools (in all their diversity) who set their own standards for behaviour.
Yes, they are regulated, academically to the same minimums as public schools but they are free to use their money to focus on the things they want to. The parents are free to use their services or find another school.

Now, you go to private school? You get HOME schooled. Your parents have removed ALL excuses for you being exposed to religious beliefs they do not approve of. They are deciding and accepting the terms of their childs education. If they do NOTHING else they put their money where their mouth is.

In public school your money is TAKEN at threat of jail. In public school your tax dollars are given back based on how kids score on tests and how many of them need "special education"
And PUBLIC school has NO reason to be fucking teaching, preaching, or forcing religion. (They do that down here in the southern US) They are NOT impartial academically. They are NOT impartial as teachers. They are NOT impartial period.
The saddest fucking part is that when you let a public school hang out its religious tone, administratively, it quells all others. Can you argue that openly polarized administrations are truely impartial to opposite views? You don't believe that, now do you?

A teacher who can be open minded and discuss religions as a part of the social structure, I applaud. But I have NEVER met.
Its no different then the dope smokers. Some do it and are cool about it and you never know it. But most stick it in your face and want to know why you DON'T do what they do.
Its a disgusting human trait that I will not FUND.

You don't need to call out to Jesus to teach science or history or math.
Pray where ever you like but don't fucking FORCE me to pray with you.
Thats attrocious and beyond oppression and it happened constantly for 9 fuckin years in a school where I was TOLD how bad I was because I didn't play football and I didn't go to their 3 accepted churches. Get it? My 4.0 gpa ment NOTHING. My interest in science and art went UNFUNDED.

Football and Jesus!

hmmm...am I angry enough to be a bolshevik yet? ;)

but anyway, we where discussing public schools.
course, silly me, I thought you'd read the article.
Oh well.

[Barbie]

Originally posted by MAC
You don't need to call out to Jesus to teach science or history or math.
Pray where ever you like but don't fucking FORCE me to pray with you.

http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/prayer30.htm

NEW PRAYER GUIDELINES FROM D. OF E. PUSH RELIGION, THREATEN SCHOOL FUNDING


Web Posted: February 12, 2003
The U.S. Department of Education has issued new rules discussing religion in classrooms, and outlining when students and others may pray in public schools.

Supporters of the directive, issued last Friday in Washington, say that it brings clarity to a contentious issue, and is needed to protect the rights of youngsters and teachers who seek to practice their religion without fear of legal reprisal. But critics are responding that the guidelines muddy and distort constitutional protections against coercive religious exercise, and may encourage "prayer bullying" during some official school activities.

Teachers are still "prohibited by the Establishment Clause from encouraging or discouraging prayer, and from actively participating in such activity with students." The new rules, however, add that teachers may "take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities." The guidelines specifically note that teachers may meet with each other "before school or during lunch" for prayer and Bible study, and "may participate in their personal capacities in privately sponsored baccalaureate ceremonies."

¶ "Student led" prayer or other religious messages during official school activities such as assemblies will be permitted, as long as the "speakers" are chosen through "neutral, evenhanded criteria." Schools may also issue disclaimer statements stating that the content of such student speech does not represent endorsement by the institution.

"EQUAL ACCESS" -- RELIGIOUS GROUPS ONLY?
Another area of the DOE guidelines persistently warns that schools must give equal treatment to both religious and non-religious organizations. A section on "Baccalaureate Ceremonies" states that while "School officials may not mandate or organize religious ceremonies," any school which makes facilities available to other private groups is required to make those same facilities and services accessible to "organizers of privately sponsored religious baccalaureate ceremonies."

The latest Department of Education guidelines, say critics, distort and confuse what is permissible religious conduct in public schools. They also may serve to encourage churches and off-campus ministries to continue their efforts to exploit the secular school system as a recruiting ground for young followers.

"This problem wouldn't exist if the churches kept their business off campuses and let teachers do what they are trained to do -- teach," said Ellen Johnson. "The Bush administration isn't making that task any easier."

"jeebus!!!"

[abs0lutionCFH]

Originally posted by MAC
.....
but anyway, we where discussing public schools.
course, silly me, I thought you'd read the article.
Oh well. [/B]


I did read the article, but you'd likely realize that if you would have taken the time to actually read my question. I did not say "But i think you have private schools all wrong". I said "where do they fit into this Rat Fuck?". The rat fuck ofcourse being your obvious inability to deal with a public school whos teaching staff was stuck on telling you that you were going to hell for being a godless non-jock. Do you need a maxi pad? Or maybe a towel to wipe up your incredibly large pool of yellowing menstral discharge?

[ms. bing]

*sigh*
ok, here goes whatever.
im a christian. im also currently in school to be a teacher. just giving you guys a heads up on where im coming from here.
my daughter used to go to a daycare i had alot of problems with. henc the "used to go" part. one of my problems was the fact that i brought her in a little late one day and saw all the kids lined up in the hall being led through the song "Jesus loves me".
this was a public daycare supported by state money. they had not advised me that this was something they did, and had sent home no notice or memo that they were going to begin including all the children in it. i said to myself "what if we werent christian? what if we were jewish? how would i feel then? what if my daughter was jewish and also four or five years old? wouldnt that be confusing for her?" this was one of many reasons why i pulled her out of that daycare. i put her in another daycare that is private and run by a lutheran church. were not lutheran, but were pretty much catholic, the kind that says they are catholic and goes to church on easter and christmas. there are lots of those. anyway, in this daycare they pray before they eat (in age appropriate classes, in her class it would be a little pointless) they sing the Jesus song and other age-appropriate christian songs, and i have no problem with this. first of all, its a much better daycare. secondly, i knew this before hand and chose to send her there. i am getting what im paying for, not what someone decided to do for whatever reason. i honestly dont know what the director of her first daycare was thinking. maybe she assumed everyone was christian. maybe she thought she would save the ones that werent. either way, she was wrong.
as far as the public school thing goes, i have lost all faith in public school and neither i or my daughter will spend a day in one. i think the best thing they could do for the public school system is scrap it and start over. or not start over. that would probably be the best bet. even the best public schools are only moderately better than the worst of their private counterparts. im speaking from experience here, both as a student and a person studying, observing, and taking part to become an educator. there is no saving the public school system, no matter how much praying they decide to allow.

[A.D.H.D]

Mac, I think at some point we may have wondered down different paths.

I objected to the notion that religion, as a taught concept has no place in schools. Of course I agree that there should be a clear separation between academics and religion (in terms of it being a truth), that goes without saying, "Lets pray to Jesus to help us with our homework" is a phrase I hope my children never have to hear, BUT. Religion as a taught concept, to me at least, is a different matter.

My school, and all others in the state, include Studies In Religion as an option for matriculation - so in this sense it does not matter if one is funded by the taxpayers or not - It was a subject which explained the nature of religions, we chose Buddhism, Islam, and a few issues, Pain and Suffering, theocrasy, Marxism as a religion etc. It is a course designed to elucidate the nature of these theories, looking at the texts, practises and so on that make up the religion or theory. Nothing was peddled. Nothing was needed to, we didn't even study Christianity, our Christian teacher told us that it would be dull, and that the other two would be more to our liking. Of course he didn't give us the wrong impression about either religion (Buddhism and Islam), he never just spoke and assured us that he was correct, he used scriptures, texts, accounts from both sides, evidence, sources information (like all other subjects at some point have to rely; history, in particular), we talked to a practising Buddhist monk, and an Islamic lady.

I'm an atheist with a passion for disagreeing, this class would have been a golden opportunity for me to claim that he was giving us the Christian spin, but I never did because the class was a study of the religions, just like I studied the French Revolution.

I think we are in agreement generally though Mac, religion shouldn't be indoctrinated through schooling, but we should not be so cautious of this threat that we avoid studying the marvellous multicultural, diverse land we live in, which cannot exclude religious beliefs in my opinion.

[Growing_Mystery]

Originally posted by Solstice_Gray
Personally, as a student I think that the church and school should be divided but neither oppressed by the other. In saying this I think there should be a specific part of the curriculum that studies all religion. Not just Christianity or Islam, all religion that is within reason to study. (Due to the quantity and variance of religions I understand that it would be impossible to provide even a basic understanding of all religions. By saying all religion I mean the major religions that have and affect on future, current and historic world politics.)
[p]I agree. Religion can be taught in school, but not from a religious point of view. It needs to be taught by a political point of view, otherwise it should be an elective. Something that's totally your choice to attend that doesn't take place during any classes, but may be taught by teachers.

[dub]

Public schools were the best thing that ever happened to me.

Socially, I think you end up being repressed in one way or another without
the wide exposure that you get with something like public schools.

I dont think RELIGION has any place in public schools, and I firmly believe this.

I do, however, belive that the bible is a great piece of work that
should be studied from an objective standpoint by everyone, including
those in public schools, but OBJECTIVELY, so they take what they will
from it, and form their own opinions based on what theyve learned.

Thats what school is all about.

Old and new testaments, the later works of catholocism, mormanism
judaism and all forms of christianity should be covered objectively in
any institution you frequent.
Anything that has that kind of following should be looked at very very
carefully, in my opinion.

I do, however, think they should preach a couple of things in school.

Morality,
Humanity,
Equality
and love.

All forms of religion and be construed to fit under these four things,
just without the cartoon figurehead.

Ya'll should rock the tao, its the shit.

(sorry about the spelling, imma go to bed now)

[rage]

"And you expect me not to pray"

Speaking of misconceptions.

Pray if you want to.

Don't pray if you don't want to.

But don't **make** the students pray, and don't stop them from praying if they choose to (barring distracting class of course).

[Stevo]

since when have we expected large groups of christians to not act this way?? Remember the Crusades?

[Koliedrus]

Originally posted by Stevo
Remember the Crusades?

In fact, I don't. I suppose it's in my best interest to learn more now that I (and you, for that matter) have been labeled as a "Crusader".

I'll start here: http://www.medievalcrusades.com/. I'm throwing dice. I wasn't taught this stuff in either church or school.

[ms. bing]

originally posted by dub
Socially, I think you end up being repressed in one way or another without
the wide exposure that you get with something like public schools.


sure, if youre educated under a rock.
wanna know what the biggest difference i have found is among kids from public vs. private school?
the parents of the kids in private school have taken at least enough interest in their child's education to pay for it or find the funding to pay for it. whatever the reasons may be, whether it is religious, status, or attempting to push the child into a certain college, they cared enough to find a school they wanted the kid to go to and pay for him/her to go there. they also expect, since this is now an investment, for the student to do at least the minimum necessary to not get kicked out. that includes not behaving like a complete asshole all of the time.
what i actually meant when i said they should scrap the public school system is that it is too mired in legislature to get anything done. there are laws about everything, and to a large degree these laws have served to take away the choice of an individual campus or district to do what the community feels is right for their children. this is evident in the school prayer controversy, but that is not all. there are also ridiculous "zero tolerance" policies that have taken reason out of the disciplining of students. this includes students who have never been in trouble before suspended for having midol at school, or a 5-year-old boy expelled for kissing a little girl on the playground. there are antiquated standardized tests that students must pass to graduate, and that cause so much pressure to be put on the teachers to have the students pass that they must stop their lessons for as long as 8 weeks to "teach the test". they start this in third grade here. you have parents who only send their kids to school or care if they go to school because the law says they must. some parents i know dont even care that much. these parents have never seen their child's classroom, met the teachers, or spoken to the principal unless there has been a problem with their child. when they do it is often an unpleasant task for the teacher because the parent blames him/her for not dealing with the problem or knuckling under to whatever the kid wants so that the parents did not have to be inconvenienced to come to school and deal with their own kid.
sorry, i got a little ranty there for a minute.
point is i fail to see how more laws or rules are going to solve a problem of too many laws and rules. it would be best i guess for districts to have more control on what they can do in their own schools, but for the most part i still see huge problems that would come from majority rule when minority still have to attend or else pay for the priviledge of not attending.
needless to say, im all for the voucher program. and to hell with declining enrollment. shoulda thought of that before they let their school become a cesspool.

[dub]

I'll be honest with you, helena montana is a city run by christians,
and we have a lot of private christian schools here, and I happen
to know of a lot of kids who ended up going to these schools as
punishment for misbehaving, because these schools were strict and
more disiplinary in every aspect.

And in these cases, I think it was more about the parents not wanting
to have to deal with their misbehaving children, rather than find out
what the actual problem is/was with them.

Maybe im bias, and I live in a strange area. Could be, but im guessing no.

[Hygiliak]

Not bias, not strange, not unique.
Behavior and disicipline have always been the bench mark of private schools.
Unfortunatly they have also been the out for parents unable or unwilling to cope.

[Barbie]

Secular school can never be tolerated, because such schools have no religious instruction. And general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religious must be derived from faith…we need believing people.
~ Adolf Hitler

there is nothing wrong with secular schools.