Never forget

[Billyman]

I recieved this by email today. Thought I'd pass it a long. Throw out your thoughts at will.

I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and Marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:


-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

[simiantics]

What's your stance on the issue?

Mine:
I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Nothing could prepare anyone for that movie... it still makes me shudder.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

People who use the word evil are always going to be shocked by these things. Calling it evil is copping out. Everytime someone's will opposes your own are you going to label it "evil" and pray that "good" will prevail?

So many preach understanding and tolerance. I agree with the former, but not the latter, and I'd argue that neither are practiced. In my short life I've been allowed to understand the pre-approved ideas and nothing beyond that. Luckily I live in a nation where they don't shoot you on site for that. I've been called a Nazi because I refuse to call Hitler evil. I've had people insinuate that I'm a skin head wannabe because I actually want to understand this "evil." Just because I want to understand what makes us all different and what makes us all the same does not mean I will tolerate genocide, not because it's immoral, but because it's wrong for me, and because it flies in the face of what I need to live.

And in the end that's what it comes down to: what I need to live and be happy. That means that from time to time there will be conflict, but what's with the fucking hate? If you hate someone then that means you don't understand them. Maybe you don't agree, maybe you don't get along, but everybody has a reason for doing what they do, and I assure you that their reason in their mind is just as good as yours, or rather in their mind it's probably better. You can call them misguided, you can call them evil, and you can call them insane, but just what exactly do you think they call you?


On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans <u>naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others</u>.

What do they call you and your nation, Ed Evans?

Calling them evil may make it easier to kill, but it also makes it easier for them to kill you. You're no better no worse. The sooner you realize that the sooner you can cut the bullshit and admit that all of your rage is not because a great injustice was done, but because this time you were on the receiving end. I don't hate you, but I won't tolerate you. At best you can hate me, and then kill me, and then it won't fucking matter, now will it?

And still that Nazi example pisses me off (not really, but if anything over the internet could...). Once again:

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

Who are you kidding? I'm sorry, but recovering the Rhineland and the Sudetenland was just an accident, so the rest of the world can turn its back. The Krystallnacht was all just a big misunderstanding, so now we can all be civilized and pretend that we don't see. After the fact though: we liberated the Jews!

I've heard so many bitching about how all of the other nations seem to hate the US, yet they had no idea why Sept. 11th happened. Well it's a bit late to be crying over them hating you now isn't it?

I think that Bush (figuratively) has the understanding bit down. I think that he can understand Sadam better than anyone, and that's why he's trying so hard to make him look evil: so it will be easier to kill him: so it will be easier to get away with it: so he feels nothing but pride when he looks in the mirror.

For Chrissakes I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore, which is okay because I hardly ever do.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

Is this guy even reading what he writes? We have <u>no</u> choice.

Liberty means without impediment, so I have to ask:

If you <i>have</i> to kill to defend your liberty, then is it really liberty you're defending?



Now that I think about it, I think my sig. says it all.

[MAC]

masterfully said, simiantics
(I may not totally agree, but well said none the less.)

I would like to take what you said the next step in this direction

"I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America. "

There you have it.
THEY are WE
Where our army goes, where our policy goes, where or friends and family go, so go we.
We are not just throwing our money at IRAQ and North Korea. Our losses in armed conflict are real humans from our communities. And, friends and neighbors, every pacifist becomes a soldier or a corpse when the enemy arrives at their front door.

You are free to choose to fight and, thusly, you may die.
You are free to choose NOT to fight and, thusly, you may die.
You are NOT free to choose where your money goes....and thusly you may pay to kill and be killed for what it does.


So tell me, is it our tax system that makes us all americans?
Certainly looks that way. I can see nothing else that brings us all together and makes us all responsible.
Is this the WAY you want to take part in the world?
The gov't action with your taxes?

A dollar goes farther than a bullet, so decide what you want to shoot before you pull the trigger.

[estero]

Someone once told me that freedom in this country is an illusion.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about that....

[3MTA3]

All 3 of your attitudes suck my testes...

simiantics, yer all on about how Hitler isnt evil and blah blah semantics mother fucker...you know the context of the word and when applied to the sept. 11th kamikazis, its a fitting label(Same with Adolph, Stalin & Pol Pot). No shit sherlock, any powerful descriptor in the language can be trivialized through overuse or misuse or whatever, but thats language...

This whole 'thats why the world hates America' shit is old and full of holes...the world hates America because: we are 'the Great Satan', they dont have any say in how our govt. conducts itself(which they shouldnt) or they are the French...its a bunch of fucking whiners who are not top dog taking a swing at number 1...you honestly dont think the roles would be reverse if the commies won the cold war? Oh, and I dont give a fuck why some other country may not like mine...Im quite proud of what weve built over here and I wish to improve it, and then spread it around the world...

Anyways, I think your whole post was crap...allow people their sentiment, stop bashing on them just because of their stance...

MAC, what is with you and taxes?? Yes they suck but they are Constitutional and the logic behind them is sound...I dont know what else to say...

Kaye, Im upset at you because you didnt post about how much you love my penis...

[Solstice_Gray]

Im quite proud of what weve built over here and I wish to improve it, and then spread it around the world...

I take it you are a supporter of imperialist action. Is that not a flaw in and of itself? Is that not a flaw of the government of this once great nation? Ask yourself, before you hop into you car, SUV or whatnot. Ask yourself, how am I making the world a better place by spreading my ideas and ideals over everyone else and not trying to understand what they already have. How can imposing myself over others making them and me a better person, or is that not making everything and everyone the same. And is not diversity what makes us people?

[MAC]

3mat3, I'll tell you why taxes play into this:
because you are safely removed from everything by being their victim
poor american paying taxes to the big washington gov't
let's watch CNN and bitch about how much that first missile volley cost
AND lets give more money to NASA
and lets expand unemployment
and lets fund alternative fuels (sorta)
and lets conserve the rainforest
and lets...hey!
did you know that 28 states now use federal medicaid funding to give out viagra?
did you know that when mcDonald's runs a french fry commercial in (insert foreign nation) it has US federal funding?

[immense sarcasm building]

but lets cut income taxes and military benefits and state funding
and go off to war

well, as long as its a big fuckin mess that I can't undertsand, I am free from it aren't I?

I am seperate (from those dieing in war) but equal (to those in my tax bracket)
and now let me tell you why we should go after N Korea next, because I don't really believe anyone else has friends in the military and I, the big fat american, NEED something to cry about next
will something please blow up or be terrorised or go wrong, I need disease and bad economys and politicians to blame and problems to make me feel better and explain the drugs the dr gives me that are now paid for by all the medical benefits I get at my job instead of money which would just have been taxed to pay for medicaid and SSI for ppl who didn't bother to go to college like me.
we have it too good and should be punished...umm
I need more safety, that seems broad and socially suicidal enough,
can we get more safety please?

you know...20 years ago my parents generation griped because the gov't hid in dark bunkers watching blinking lights on screens and NOT telling us what was going on.
Now the gov't declares color coded alerts and we stand around going "what does that mean?" for hours on end on the news.

Same maze, different rat.
Here's some cheese to go with your whine.

[simiantics]

Anyways, I think your whole post was crap...allow people their sentiment, stop bashing on them just because of their stance...

You exemplify my point. It is not okay for me to criticize him, but it is okay for you to criticize me? Why didn't you just let my stance stand?

This whole 'thats why the world hates America' shit is old and full of holes...the world hates America because: we are 'the Great Satan', they dont have any say in how our govt.

No, Amirica is the 'Great Satan' because it wants the help of the UN, but it won't pay it's dues. It is the Great Satan because it wants to be an unparallelled super power, yet does not understand that other nations want to keep its power in check for their own self interest. Its the 'Great Satan' because it calls down imperialism, yet it tries to build an empire. Its the 'Great Satan' because it would fight a war for someone elses oil, all the calling the other nation the 'Great Satan'. Its the 'Great Satan' because it would exploit impoverished nations for cheap labour and resources. Its the 'Great Satan' because it boasts of having much, while others have little.

Calling the United States evil is bullshit... America has its right to conduct itself as it sees fit. If anyone objects then they can step up.

Explain to me this: They call your nation evil, but you don't seem to agree; does that make them wrong? You call Stalin evil, but I don't think that he'd agree: so how the hell does that make him wrong?

No shit sherlock, any powerful descriptor in the language can be trivialized through overuse or misuse or whatever, but thats language...

If you had read you'd understand that I'm not debating the meaning of the word, but rather the application. It has no objective application; none whatsoever. You make it sound as if the word is objective, but then you go and say:

you honestly dont think the roles would be reverse if the commies won the cold war?

... which makes it subjective and argues my stance for me. Of course I think it would be reversed if Russia took the seat that the US now holds (not that "winning the cold war" [?] would do that). They called the French evil under Napoleon, the Germans evil under Hitler, and now the Americans under their current figurehead. What the fuck does the word mean? Do you feel evil for being an American (I know some do)? Whoever threatens us is evil? Whoever pisses us off is evil? Whoever threatens us, whoever makes us jealous? What about morality? The word is supposed to describe morality, but it never does becaue the word is used objectively and morality is subjective.

Anyways, I think your whole post was crap...allow people their sentiment, stop bashing on them just because of their stance...

Anyway, I don't think you understood a word of it, or you wouldn't be making those objections.
____________________________________________________

I agree with Mac on his 'tax rant.' Maybe I'm twisting this a little, but giving taxes is giving power. You can't give up power and then blame the government when it's abused. If they use that power to put a bullet in someone's head, they used the power that you gave them, for whatever reason you gave it to them. If they use that power to screw you up the ass, you have every right to be upset, but it doesn't change the fact that they did it with the power that was given to them by you and your peers. The comforts of your society are afforded to you by the system that runs this taxation, but the ills of your society stem from the same system and its ability or inability to wield the power that you gave them (or perhaps that you let them take from you). It comes down to what you value more in the end, and above all people value safety and comfort. It's not what you say it's what you do.

[Barbie]

Originally posted by Billyman
I recieved this by email today. Thought I'd pass it a long. Throw out your thoughts at will. [/B]

Thanks for the post.
It was a good read.

I will never know why more than 3/4 of my father's family dissappeared or were murdered, and I never will.

I will not support war though, for any reason. I'm sorry.

Barbie. :wtc: