They did't check my references

[Koliedrus]

This is one of those times where I wish I could go blank.

(time passes)

Ah! I can!

Here's the thing: I saw and bought a wooden body massager for Mrs. Kol. Instead of describing it, I thought maybe I could find a picture of it.

Blam! It has a UPC!

Google...

http://www.upcdatabase.com/

No entry found. Option to add one. Ok...

606292001406

Added.

Actually, the thing looks like a stick-(wo)man with no arms, bent over with his her ass in the air.

I suppose it's a good thing that they didn't provide a more extensive product-description field. I'm not sure how my perceptions would affect sales.

Now I just need to remember to focus on the backrub itself.

[Cruise Director]

It is now the year 2002 and virtually every product out there comes labeled with a UPC (Universal Product Code.) Retailers live and die by them and people should be used to them by now. But it never ceases to amaze me when a product comes through one of our registers either without a UPC on it or one that doesn't work, the customer just tells you to "type in the price." What the hell planet have these people been living on for the last 25 years??? Only people in Michigan are bassackwards enough to still hand-price everything with a price tag. (It is a law there that almost all products be hand-stickered to reflect the price.)

[Escape Artist]

Originally posted by Cruise Director
Only people in Michigan are bassackwards enough to still hand-price everything with a price tag. (It is a law there that almost all products be hand-stickered to reflect the price.)

Well, til you've shopped in a ghetto supermarket here, often with only $20 to yer name and a real need to stretch it as thin as possible, I wouldn't expect ya to realize why it's still useful - lot of these places don't utilize UPC's or even those stickers on the shelves. For that matter, a lot of the major retailers don't update pricing on anything, either. It gets frustrating for us consumers trying to use the so-called technically advanced UPC system, when the retailers themselves won't spend the time to properly mark anything. Chew on that, fakker. :p

[Cruise Director]

that's why everyone else uses the bar code system with one price label on the shelf. Nobody else feels the need to place a price sticker on every item. Think of it from a logistical standpoint. We'll use an example I'm familiar with:

Home Depot stocks over 50,000 items in a store. Every week we process 400 to 1000 price changes, some up and some down. Now, would it be easier and more consumer friendly to change one sticker on the shelf? Or would it be easier to 1.) relabel the shelf 2.) relabel every itme stocked on the shelf 3.)find every bit of the product in overstock and relabel it? Which process do you think creates more errors?

The Department of weights and measures ( which falls in the Dept of Agriculture ) does random samplings of retailers to make sure the shelf price actually matches what the computers at the front of the store ring up. If a retailer scores less than 95% accuracy, you are fined. My store has never scored under 99%.

As for smaller retailers, I can understand a small, neighborhood store not using bar codes. It's a nightmare for larger stores requiring massive amounts of man-hours (6 full time associates or 240 hours per week) just to keep up with price changes and incoming freight.

[Escape Artist]

It may work for reasonably efficient systems, but let's face it - we're talking about Detroit. They restock, throw shit on shelves, and generally don't care about whether a price is even listed at all. There's been tons of cases where they'll actually try to mislead consumers for the sake of profit.

Either way you go about it, it has the potential to be a shitload of work yet easily and quickly done with practice - thus I don't see what the big deal is, aside from laziness on the part of retailers.

[Koliedrus]

And here I thought it was interesting that Altair, Sol, Procyon and Sirius formed a pyramid.

(see first post in this thread for reference)

[Cruise Director]

Originally posted by Escape Artist

Either way you go about it, it has the potential to be a shitload of work yet easily and quickly done with practice - thus I don't see what the big deal is, aside from laziness on the part of retailers.

That, my friend, is a false statement. What you refer to as "laziness" by retailers is actually what I would call inefficiency. A business doing 40+ million per year and turning their 7-10 million dollar inventory an average of 7 times in that same fiscal year doesn't necessarily have the time to place a sticker on every single item due to the mistrust of a few citizens. Where do you think those associate's salaries come from? It comes right off the bottom of your receipt. It doesn't affect my bonus either way.

If you mistrust a retailer for marking items wrong A.) don't shop there B.) tell your friends not to shop there and C.) turn them in.

[Escape Artist]

Originally posted by Cruise Director
That, my friend, is a false statement. What you refer to as "laziness" by retailers is actually what I would call inefficiency. A business doing 40+ million per year and turning their 7-10 million dollar inventory an average of 7 times in that same fiscal year doesn't necessarily have the time to place a sticker on every single item due to the mistrust of a few citizens. Where do you think those associate's salaries come from? It comes right off the bottom of your receipt. It doesn't affect my bonus either way.

If you mistrust a retailer for marking items wrong A.) don't shop there B.) tell your friends not to shop there and C.) turn them in.

Associates? Aaaahhahahah....try underpaid, jaded and annoyed employees that simply don't give a fuck. Laziness all up and down the corporate chain.

Frankly, y'know what? If they don't have the fucking time to do a common courtesy to the customers that shop there, and offer service consistent with the profits they expect, they don't deserve business, they don't deserve a good public image, and lastly, they deserve no place in this country.

As for not shopping there, well - not like the great majority of consumers have much choice in the matter, considering how every company has consolidated into mega-marts and so forth...in a 10 mile radius I can find little to no places that aren't Super K, Best Buy or what have you.

[Cruise Director]

Originally posted by Escape Artist
Associates? Aaaahhahahah....try underpaid, jaded and annoyed employees that simply don't give a fuck. Laziness all up and down the corporate chain.

Frankly, y'know what? If they don't have the fucking time to do a common courtesy to the customers that shop there, and offer service consistent with the profits they expect, they don't deserve business, they don't deserve a good public image, and lastly, they deserve no place in this country.

As for not shopping there, well - not like the great majority of consumers have much choice in the matter, considering how every company has consolidated into mega-marts and so forth...in a 10 mile radius I can find little to no places that aren't Super K, Best Buy or what have you.

Whatever. I suggest if you mistrust retailers so bad you go grow your own food and create your own products so the "man" and his "lazy employees" aren't keeping you down.

Jesus.

[Escape Artist]

Tell ya what, next time you visit your friend in the metro area, if at all - visit the Best Buy here in Dearborn that only uses one line regardless of the load placed on the cashiers that are stuck doing it, or the Super K that looks like a lot of Detroit does - filthy, poorly maintained and often not stocked up on much of anything.

How about the so-called sales that ya never ever quite catch?

How about the fact that nowadays, you have to literally chase down an associate, even in HD?

Can you honestly call that good business practice?

Go read this (http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164--53620--,00.html), goddamnit, and tell me you want half the people in the Detroit area who are broke or on pensions being subjected to that shit. Is it really worth the hassle, considering an experienced stockboy can do an entire case of product in maybe 30 seconds? Don't believe me? I've seen them. Is it really worth the extra time taken by associates who have to stop and explain prices on shit over and over to irate customers when the lack of upkeep which is a trademark in this area inevitably causes the devices to fail? When the labels no longer are updated? How about the fact that they'll ultimately be more stressed out, job performance will suffer, and consequently people stop shopping there?

Lose the rose colored glasses for five minutes, man.

[Billyman]

"WHEN THREADS GO BAD"

Tonight on Fox!

[Escape Artist]

Originally posted by Billyman
"WHEN THREADS GO BAD"

Tonight on Fox!

Fox sucks, dude.

[Cruise Director]

Why is it that you are mixing employee morale and bad customer serice with shelf pricing? The first two have absolutely nothing to do with the third.

The article you linked discusses a technolofy called ESL. I agree that ESL isn't exactly a good thing. Reading the article points out the fears of underhanded retailing and bait and switch tactics; most of which are illegal. I don't work for one of those companies and take offense at any implication that I do. When you've got large, respected corpprate giants like Disney, Enron and AT&T spouting about their own corporate misdeeds I take pride in working for a company that has one of the best track records on the planet. I see those kinds of retailers here, too. Contrary to popular belief, they are not found only in the ghettos of Detroit. In fact, most retailers that are caught committing bait and switch type crimes happen in more white collar areas where people are less apt to pay attention to pricing and do any sort of comparison pricing. ESL, if used ethically, is helpful for retailers. There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be able to adjust my shelf prices up or down when I see fit. I am in this business to make a profit and should be allowed to do so as long as I am following the law. I don't see anybody bitching in Detroit about gas prices fluctuating daily or things like "happy hour" or dinner specials to entice customers through the door. Should they have to keep their prices the same all the time because of the fear some people have of getting ripped off? Perhaps we would be better off going the route of a car dealership and putting the highest possible price on each product and make you haggle for a good deal. Work for you?

What I am discussing is having one price sticker on the shelf or peg versus having to price every single item a store carries. Perhaps the efforts of those six people in each store that are constantly re-stickering items would be better spent helping the customers that you mention have to chase down associates. Which pricing do you think is more accurate? When a price change comes down and an associate has to change one shelf price? Or when a price change comes down and they have to find mulitple cases of stock on the shelves, overhead storage and storage room facility.

Associate morale and customer service are completely different issues that we can discuss somewhere else.

As for the "rose colored glasses" comment. Fuck you. I have lived in retail for almost as long as you have been alive. You have your opinions that I respect but you need to realize that I have more knowledge about this business than you can imagine. I don't talk down to you on things you appear to have knowledge on and I expect the same in return.

[Escape Artist]

Why is it that you are mixing employee morale and bad customer serice with shelf pricing? The first two have absolutely nothing to do with the third.

Yeah, cause it's a bit more wide-reaching than just some pissed off, pimply 16 year old grumbling about stickers on products. If consumers don't have a clear idea of what something costs, they have to ask.

Considering a lot of local shops seem to be understaffed, this puts stress on the associates. If they can't keep up with the demand for information, the problem is twofold: customers neither know the price, nor can they find someone to assist them. Frankly, the last time it happened to me, I walked out of the place.

Secondly, many stores are inefficient, run by lazy people, or whatever the case may be. Regardless, this equates to less chances overall of updated information regarding whatever you want to buy.

Take a shorthanded staff, give them idiot managers telling them to practically rearrange the store every other week (and, yes, this happens often - drives me fucking insane) and update shelf pricing OR individual product tags, and they're stressed to do it. Add the problems of them being interrupted by customers while they work, they're further stressed to perform. Pissed off customers result. Big slippery slope. You've experience in retail, follow the logical chain of events - it can get ugly.

The article you linked discusses a technolofy called ESL. I agree that ESL isn't exactly a good thing. Reading the article points out the fears of underhanded retailing and bait and switch tactics; most of which are illegal. I don't work for one of those companies and take offense at any implication that I do. When you've got large, respected corpprate giants like Disney, Enron and AT&T spouting about their own corporate misdeeds I take pride in working for a company that has one of the best track records on the planet. I see those kinds of retailers here, too. Contrary to popular belief, they are not found only in the ghettos of Detroit. In fact, most retailers that are caught committing bait and switch type crimes happen in more white collar areas where people are less apt to pay attention to pricing and do any sort of comparison pricing. ESL, if used ethically, is helpful for retailers. There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be able to adjust my shelf prices up or down when I see fit. I am in this business to make a profit and should be allowed to do so as long as I am following the law. I don't see anybody bitching in Detroit about gas prices fluctuating daily or things like "happy hour" or dinner specials to entice customers through the door. Should they have to keep their prices the same all the time because of the fear some people have of getting ripped off? Perhaps we would be better off going the route of a car dealership and putting the highest possible price on each product and make you haggle for a good deal. Work for you?

Since when has ethics and profits ever co-existed? The 1950's? :p

Btw, I use the Detroit area as example simply due to my fairly long experiences with it - like anything there's good points and bad points - you may have a great store in Utah, we can have a horrid one. Such is life.

Usually, supply/demand chain dictates a fair price - if I know ShiteMart sells milk for $2.50 as opposed to K-Mart's $3.50, I'll shop at ShiteMart and K-mart will consequently lower their prices due to a decreased demand on their goods. Well, an already consolidated and low-competition market like what's in urban areas is a semi-monopoly...like I learned in my good ol' economics class, monopolies make for great profits, since you've no competition. Imagine a Wally World opening up somewhere, driving out other competing business, and subsequently implementing a technology like ESL - the consumers are going to get raped. One of the reasons we have this legislation is to prevent just that - with the advent of megamarts, there's little stopping them. As for laws, they're a big grey area on the subject...and what hopes do consumers have of beating a corporation with millions or even billions to spend on lawyers, lobbying et al?

What I am discussing is having one price sticker on the shelf or peg versus having to price every single item a store carries. Perhaps the efforts of those six people in each store that are constantly re-stickering items would be better spent helping the customers that you mention have to chase down associates. Which pricing do you think is more accurate? When a price change comes down and an associate has to change one shelf price? Or when a price change comes down and they have to find mulitple cases of stock on the shelves, overhead storage and storage room facility.

Take a few lazy assed customers tossing stuff back on shelves in addition to busy associates, and stuff gets mixed up..they may temporarily use a shelf for something without changing the shelf sticker, etc etc - and unless you've got the store flyer stuffed up your ass for quick reference or someone to chase down to get the price, it's a definite problem. Oftentimes, ya have no idea what's what. It may be a drain on labor hours to do, but it makes us customers lives a lot easier. Considering we pay for it as higher prices for stuff, what's the problem? If laws weren't involved and places could get away with it, of course they'd take advantage of the confusion - getting someone to spend $20 more on a different model of something means more profits.

Take HD for example - once went there to get shelves. Well, sign on the shelf had the list price for the model I want, but I look again and the boxes there were completely different models and significantly more expensive ones. The model I wanted? On a shelf in a nearby aisle. Unless you're sharp enough to reference the sticker for model #, you stand to get overcharged for something. I've walked out of there a couple times with my mom simply due to the service and problems finding stuff. (no offense intended, just stating experience)


Associate morale and customer service are completely different issues that we can discuss somewhere else.

Indeed, but they tie in to this stuff and have an effect farther down the line.

As for the "rose colored glasses" comment. Fuck you. I have lived in retail for almost as long as you have been alive. You have your opinions that I respect but you need to realize that I have more knowledge about this business than you can imagine. I don't talk down to you on things you appear to have knowledge on and I expect the same in return.

"Whatever. I suggest if you mistrust retailers so bad you go grow your own food and create your own products so the 'man' and his 'lazy employees' aren't keeping you down."

I gave what I got there; one snide comment deserves another, IMO. Frankly, you act as if it's a perfect system - it may very well be for Home Depot, I won't dispute that since I'm not in your shoes, but speaking as a consumer that has shopped in places all over this state and some of the damned country, I like to think I have some experience with them. Furthermore, getting belittled for having the opinion that retailers should treat the people they get paychecks from fairly is a personal insult. Y'know, you and me aren't goddamned statistics on a sheet of paper when we go into a store. Still people and still deserve some common courtesy and respect.