View Full Version : Constitutional Amendment?
SimpleSimon
11-10-2002, 08:43 PM
I think most of you would agree that the laws that are on the books in this country are at best confusing, sometimes contradictory, and primarily provide employment for a huge parasitic class - lawyers.
I brought this up in chat a few days ago, and thought I'd put it out for a wider consideration. I propose we amend the Constitution as follows:
No person may serve in any elected capacity who has ever practiced law, or been admitted before the bar for the practice of law; nor may any person who has served in any elected position (to include persons appointed to fulfill a vacated position) ever subsequently practice law in any capacity
What do you think?
3MTA3
11-10-2002, 10:33 PM
I think yer a fucking idiot who would seek to limit free speech and would throw a giant fucking monkey wrench into the American system of law at the same time...not only are you asking a govt. body that is composed of like 80something% lawyers to ban themselves from making a living if they lose election, but you want them to kick themselves out of office at the same time...this entire concept is fucking absurd, stupid and quite honestly strikes me as madness...
Lawyers fashion law for a reason you dipshit...its their trade, its what they do...you elect a prominent and successful business man to a city govt. postitions because the job is management, something they have proven themselves capable of...you do not elect some fuckwit bagboy from the local food store because he looks nice...you put people in office who can get the job done, lawyers deal with law, thats why they make it, thats why the reality of the world is that lawyers, primarily, compose the law making bodies of the world...dumbass. Honestly, you have reached a new level of stupid and I do not feel I can be harsh enough in curbing your thought process.
Billyman
11-10-2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by 3MTA3
I think yer a fucking idiot who would seek to limit free speech and would throw a giant fucking monkey wrench into the American system of law at the same time...not only are you asking a govt. body that is composed of like 80something% lawyers to ban themselves from making a living if they lose election, but you want them to kick themselves out of office at the same time...this entire concept is fucking absurd, stupid and quite honestly strikes me as madness...
Lawyers fashion law for a reason you dipshit...its their trade, its what they do...you elect a prominent and successful business man to a city govt. postitions because the job is management, something they have proven themselves capable of...you do not elect some fuckwit bagboy from the local food store because he looks nice...you put people in office who can get the job done, lawyers deal with law, thats why they make it, thats why the reality of the world is that lawyers, primarily, compose the law making bodies of the world...dumbass. Honestly, you have reached a new level of stupid and I do not feel I can be harsh enough in curbing your thought process.
And that is exactly the problem with our gov't and the system.
SimpleSimon
11-11-2002, 12:58 AM
3ATM3 - that was pathetic - you pride yourself on your flaming? I cannot imagine why.
As to you curbing my thought processes - you are incapable of understanding them, as you have just amply demonstrated. Curb them you cannot.
--where are you going with this. what will it accomplish to ban lawyers from... lawmaking.
dont let them make increasingly confusing laws so that they will be required to tell us what they meant when they drafted them... for a price?
Asmodeus
11-11-2002, 01:23 AM
Tis an interesting idea. Don't think it will work, but interesting, and meritable, nontheless.
SimpleSimon
11-11-2002, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by ZiM
--where are you going with this. what will it accomplish to ban lawyers from... lawmaking.
dont let them make increasingly confusing laws so that they will be required to tell us what they meant when they drafted them... for a price?
It's just an idea, tossed in the ring to be kicked around - but your point is part of it, certainly.
id like to hear your points.
i personally think it more important to have a few amendments to make current law constitutional -- or change those laws.
a la tax code, abortion, gun control, etc etc.
Pianomahnn
11-11-2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by 3MTA3
I think yer a fucking idiot ...
...dumbass. Honestly, you have reached a new level of stupid and I do not feel I can be harsh enough in curbing your thought process.
Wow...direct assaults are a magnificent way of proving a point.
I could save all of this trouble
---------------------------------
amendment XXVIII
no constitutionally approved federal law shall be enacted for more than 10 years without being resubmitted by each state legislature for a new vote by the congress at the end of the 10 year period
----------------------------------
and don't tell me how that will "bog down the system"
all they do now is pass laws and then pass MORE laws to add on to old laws they don't like or add new penalties for bullshit "spins" on the same old crimes (how many times will they make MURDER illegal?)
this makes it impossible for the average citizen to be in compliance with all the laws to begin with
now your states have the power
the fed can't pass new laws unless your states approve them
(like bullshit policys they force on our states by throwing our tax$$ back at us.)
....its in your own back yard, now do something
Billyman
11-11-2002, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by ZiM
i personally think it more important to have a few amendments to make current law constitutional -- or change those laws.
a la tax code, abortion, gun control, etc etc.
Most of the original laws were constitutional, it's been the amendments that have made them not so.
3MTA3
11-11-2002, 06:04 PM
Ughh...personal attacks do make my case for me...stop second guessing my methods...
Seriously, Simon up there wants to ban lawyers from fashioning law because he thinks they are the problem...hes fucking wrong. It wounldt change a thing...oh, and its so fucking absurd that it will never happen plus its a fucking vioation of our first amendment right...ignore my insults...Ive got good points...the whole idea is incredibly fucking stupid and while I dont expect Simon to admit to this, I think the rest of us can agree that banning people from representative office is a bad idea no matter how many bad jokes people pass around about their profession...it is a dumb fucking idea.
Also, who the fuck is gonna fill this vacuum?? Ughh...I dunno...maybe uh...umm...how about some people who have no idea of what contitutes a legal document...how about some people without a large enough and well defined enough vocabulary to properly limit or expand the scope of law?? How about we just put some fucking homeless crackhead in office and see if he seizes opportunity like Eddie Murphy did in that one flick...thats a damn fine idea...right.
You too are a fuckwit if you think this is anything close to a good idea...this idea is fucking reactionary, accomplishes nothing, actually intends to hurt the American system and was put foreward by someone with a very small penis...I know this because he tried to touch it to my leg on the subway last week...Simon is a fool, this only proves it.
After re-reading this thread, it seems that myself and Zim are the only ones with the stones to just come right out and say what a bad idea this is...why the hell cant you people just tell the kid that its a bad idea?? Its a fuckin horrible one actually and I think its pretty obvious...its not like theres some three page proposal up there, its a fucking ban on trained lawyers occupying political office...why the resistance to discouragement?? Its like I dont know you people anymore...
SatansLeftHand
11-11-2002, 06:25 PM
why ban them from office when you can just do your best to shoot them all?
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-11-2002, 06:34 PM
:(
What do I think.... hmmm, I think it would be bloody stupid to have a government full of people that couldn't understand the implications of the laws they were creating or repealing - admittedly your constitutional amendment only prohibits those who have practiced or made it to the bar, so there would still be room for those who have studied the theory of law to get in to politics - however, that would be a load of horseshit to, as being someone who has studied law yet not practiced it I feel quite confident in saying that I'm only slightly less ignorant of how it functions than everyone else.
Eatme, for his lack of tact, actually does make some good points - Lawyers do fashion law for a reason - because they understand it. As condesending as that may sound, it's a truth - every piece of legislation is a jigsaw puzzle waiting to be solved - some are enigmas - at least with a bit of legal training you don't end up pulling an arbitrary solution out of your arsed based soley on your own prejudiced ways of thinking and pre-concieved notions about how society should function.
Mac - the problem with colloidal law (law that is easily [or in your case mandatory] to repeal) is that (aside from the plethora of crap you end up with which you are obviously aware of) law becomes like fashion - it changes every season depending on the whims of society at the time, I know you don't want your neighbours telling you how to dress, do you really want them deciding your laws for you? Also, it makes it all lose it's meaning - hell, we've moved far enough away from the concept of justice within our legal system already, turning law into something as easily changed as yesterdays undies is only going to make it even more superficial and pointless....yet another 2000 codes regualting the farming of cabbages....etc.
What do I think? I think we all need to get better educated in general. Lawyers quite often fudge their way through law school (myself included) without a full understanding of the english language and how much incorrect vocabulary or punctuation effect what a law actually says, as opposed to what it is supposed to say. The number one reason law used to be taught in latin is because latin is a conceptual language and it is harder to incorrectly use an entire concept than it is to just use the wrong word or an adjunct instead of a conjunct. Law should say what it means to say - no more, no less - let the seperation of powers take care of the rest of the implications that has. If we work on the concept that law, where possible, should be given a meaning consistent with whatever constitutional document stipulates our basic rights and freedoms, and let lawyers argue the semantics and judges mediate, then we shouldn't go too wrong - problem is we do, but I would suggest thats more because lawyers spend 90% of their time cicumventing parliamentary intent - and believe me, parliament intends to screw us all over - the law is quite clear about that. Lawyers and Judges are actually helping ensure fairness in the majority of situations (corrupt ones aside) - and I think they deserve a little more respect... but then, I'm bias :D
SimpleSimon
11-11-2002, 07:19 PM
I was asked for my points by ZIM - I made them in the origin of this thread. Just an idea that popped up in a casual exchange in chat, and I wanted some input from a few of you who weren't there.
Seriously, the idea has obvious problems; his vituperation aside, 3atm3 brings up a few, others point out legitimate concerns. As to 3atm3' vituperation, I expect little else from an immature mind which cannot grasp the fact that my 20 year old son (SatansLeftHand) and I might share a computer and an interest in this forum.
Do I think such a proposal has any legitimacy? No, just an idea kicked into the circle for discussion. It certainly seems to have generated that, hasn't it?
3MTA3
11-11-2002, 08:08 PM
Why yes, yes it has...and I am more than willing to take up the role of 'forum child' as I do not intend to regulate my internet behavior in any manner for as long as I live...I will carry out my policy of 'anything goes' and 'fuck all yall' as long as it keeps me entertained...there are no rules here and certainly my conduct is innapropriate for the 'flesh world'...but then theres the magic, I dont have to behave and I wont...because deep down, under this stupid suit Im wearing...behind the eyes my co-workers are looking at occasionally from their desks, theres a very angry child with two clenched fists and a big ass brain...I will crush you all with my mighty might. Goody goody and all that! Kiss kiss Simon.
Ps. Sometimes I just type for the hell of it...anyways, I know Im an ass and if it would speed things along, I will just open all my posts with somethng like 'I am unable to conduct a reasonable and mature discussion with anyone over the internet' or some similar disclaimer...just lemme know if that would help...k?! GREAT!!
SimpleSimon
11-11-2002, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by 3MTA3
Why yes, yes it has...and I am more than willing to take up the role of 'forum child' as I do not intend to regulate my internet behavior in any manner for as long as I live...I will carry out my policy of 'anything goes' and 'fuck all yall' as long as it keeps me entertained...there are no rules here and certainly my conduct is innapropriate for the 'flesh world'...but then theres the magic, I dont have to behave and I wont...because deep down, under this stupid suit Im wearing...behind the eyes my co-workers are looking at occasionally from their desks, theres a very angry child with two clenched fists and a big ass brain...I will crush you all with my mighty might. Goody goody and all that! Kiss kiss Simon.
Ps. Sometimes I just type for the hell of it...anyways, I know Im an ass and if it would speed things along, I will just open all my posts with somethng like 'I am unable to conduct a reasonable and mature discussion with anyone over the internet' or some similar disclaimer...just lemme know if that would help...k?! GREAT!!
No need for the disclaimer 3atm3, I already was aware of all of the above. You don't offend me, rather you make me laugh, and it is frequently quite good fun to egg you on.
Billyman
11-11-2002, 11:51 PM
Yeah, 3mta3 had a go around about his posting habbits before. With the understanding I have about him now....I can read and.....
Ahh hell, the guy just cracks me up. ;)
Don't ever change man. I need the drama in my life. :D
What would you call one of those Wall Street people? Lawyers or politicians?
laure311
11-13-2002, 11:43 PM
hmmm...
i think i can (hopefully) safely say that i agree with the idea of making laws simpler for those of us who don't understand them... but i am young and most likely not supposed to understand the laws yet anyway. but, i know that a lot of people who maybe need to understand the laws (besides lawyers or anyone involved in that kind of work... working with laws... where their job REQUIRES them to understand the laws...) do not. maybe there could be a simlified version of every law. or something. i don't know, i feel like i'm a bit too young to be worried about this.
Billyman
11-14-2002, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by laure311
hmmm...
i think i can (hopefully) safely say that i agree with the idea of making laws simpler for those of us who don't understand them... but i am young and most likely not supposed to understand the laws yet anyway. but, i know that a lot of people who maybe need to understand the laws (besides lawyers or anyone involved in that kind of work... working with laws... where their job REQUIRES them to understand the laws...) do not. maybe there could be a simlified version of every law. or something. i don't know, i feel like i'm a bit too young to be worried about this.
You're never too young to worry about this, you are our future. Don't ever forget that. But don't read too deep into that either. I'm not going to hold you soley responsible when I'm old and poor. ;)
Understanding laws.
Who does that? Who could? Hell, the damn things change daily. No one has a freakin' clue what the hell's going on anymore. Tis really sad. Now go fix it. :D
laure311
11-14-2002, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Billyman
No one has a freakin' clue what the hell's going on anymore. Tis really sad. Now go fix it. :D
*goes and fixes it*
there.
all better.
:D
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-14-2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by laure311
maybe there could be a simlified version of every law. or something.
Try the 10 commandments.
laure311
11-14-2002, 01:27 AM
oo do i feel shallow.
sorry, that didn't occur to me till you pointed it out...
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-14-2002, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by laure311
oo do i feel shallow.
sorry, that didn't occur to me till you pointed it out...
There's also Hammurabi's pillar and the 12 tables of Rome .... Geeze! What are they teaching you kids these days?? ;)
I dont agree with the idea. It would be like banning a mechanic from working in a garage. Lawyers understand law. As an aside, dont most of you vote for and elect judges? Shouldnt the elected judges have to have at least passed the bar? I really wouldnt want to be before a judge who was a really good plumber but didnt know anything about the law. Would you? The lawyers you so loathe would have a field day.
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-14-2002, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Dead_Inside
The lawyers you so loathe would have a field day.
Actually, I think you'd find that that would be every lawyers worst nightmare - would you ask a lawyer how to fix your plumbing?
laure311
11-14-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by MuffyTheVampyreLayer
There's also Hammurabi's pillar and the 12 tables of Rome .... Geeze! What are they teaching you kids these days?? ;)
we did learn about hammurabi's code...is that different? if so, what exactly is the difference? im becoming interested in this whole thing.
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-14-2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by laure311
we did learn about hammurabi's code...is that different? if so, what exactly is the difference? im becoming interested in this whole thing.
Same thing - it was written on a pillar of stone. Thats why it had to be short and easy to understand - much like the 10 commandments and 12 tables. With the invention of paper law became a lot longer and harder to understand.
laure311
11-14-2002, 02:09 AM
why thank you! now don't i feel educated? indeed i do.
feel special, you have contributed to MY education.
and i'm a rock star.
so one day, when i'm famous, you can look up at that television screen and say... hey. see that sexy hard core rock star? i educated her.
:D
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-14-2002, 03:05 AM
*cough*starfucker*cough*
jules
11-14-2002, 05:22 PM
Starfucker?
laure311
11-14-2002, 05:34 PM
yea i'd ask the same thing, jul.
Koliedrus
11-14-2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by laure311
why thank you! now don't i feel educated? indeed i do.
feel special, you have contributed to MY education.
and i'm a rock star.
so one day, when i'm famous, you can look up at that television screen and say... hey. see that sexy hard core rock star? i educated her.
:D It took me a while to put this into perspective but now that it's become a tangent..
http://www.thehypertribe.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=7051
Kayla may have a good point here.
Koliedrus
11-14-2002, 06:31 PM
"Rock Star".
I thought Keith Richards was a joke before I saw this:
Venus
11-14-2002, 07:15 PM
I agree with some of Muffy's things, I agree with some of MAC's things, I think I have a solution for Laura....
CLIFF NOTES! They made Shakespiere readable, they can make the constitution readable.
ya'll do realise that you can live by any laws you choose
as long as you are willing to pay the price when they "law-maker's" send their enforcers to get you.
Waco, TX 1993
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/03/20/waco.03/fbi.infrared.video.jpg
http://www.waco93.com/images2/tanks.jpg
http://image.pathfinder.com/time/daily/newsfiles/waco/images/waco.jpg
Koliedrus
11-14-2002, 07:50 PM
Rooster
Ain't found a way to kill me yet
Eyes burn with stinging sweat
Seems every path leads me to nowhere
Wife and kids household pet
Army green was no safe bet
The bullets scream to me from somewhere
Here they come to snuff the rooster
Yeah here comes the rooster, yeah (2x)
You know he ain't gonna die
No, no, no, ya know he ain't gonna die
Walkin' tall machine gun man
They spit on me in my home land
Gloria sent me pictures of my boy
Got my pills 'gainst mosquito death
My buddy's breathin' his dyin' breath
Oh God please won't you help me make it through
Here they come to snuff the rooster
Yeah here comes the rooster, yeah
You know he ain't gonna die
No, no, no ya know he ain't gonna die
It was a new song when Waco became news.
jules
11-14-2002, 10:42 PM
Speaking of tangents...
Waco...
could that have come from Hueco? Silent "h"... hueco sounds like waco...
*ponders*
MuffyTheVampyreLayer
11-15-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by juliana
Starfucker?
Starfucker in Kiwi = Wanabe popstar - i.e, those who aspire to grow up and be an NSYNC groupie :p
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