Mandatory Suicide?

[Cruise Director]

I read in my local paper yesterday about a mna who decided to take his life. Lead overdose. I'm o.k. with this. "One less asshole breathing my air," I thought. As I read further down into the article, I saw that he leaves behind a wife and three children. That's selfish. How the fuck could you do that to people you supposedly love? It doesn't bother me that if someone thinks their life is soooo miserable; they take their life. I'm just hung up on the leftovers:

1.) Family. Self explanitory. Who takes care of the kids?

2.) Financial. How much of his credit card debt, car payments, home loans, etc, do my lending institutions make me absorb because this asshole left a shitload of payments?

Guess #2 makes me look selfish, but oh well.



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When I become World Dictator...HEADS WILL ROLL !!!!

[Dog Breath]

Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish Self-ish

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

FUCK YOU RW!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahah!!!!!

no but seriously wouldn't it be cheaper to build autopilots for jet-skis? Instead of a multi million dollar boat just rent jet-skis for say $10,000 with an autopilot. Just sit ol gramps on it aim it for oh say....Tahitti with a full tank of gas. It should have no problem reaching international waters where it would run out of gas and gramps could take a nice long dip. With his permission of course. Maybe taking gramps sky diving. It isn't technically suicide until he decides not to pull the rip cord. Maybe we could start the everglades petting zoo?

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

Holy shit I have been violated!!!
I can say Fuck but I can't say Self-ish!
Grumble grumble.

[This message has been edited by Dog Breath (edited 04-10-2001).]

[3MTA3]

See...this is why Im not a Libertarian...and why I have no real party affiliation...cause its all shit...Libertarianism is a fucking backlash party...another dramatic arc of the pendulum...

Instead of just saying "why the fuck cant we just kill ourselves, I mean, it is our body right?? Fuck those cocksuckers who think they can tell me what to do!!"...why dont you look at it from the USG's point of view...

People who are willing to commit suicide are a fucking danger to society...all of them(yes, even the old and infirmed)...if you have the potential to take yerself out, you are one short step from dragging a few unfortunates with you...

Kivorkian...idiot...doctors have taken the Hypocratic oath to protect life...they cannot, in good concience, or ethically assist in a suicide...also, ailing patients drive research and help us to find solutions to health problems...no, Im not saying yer sick ass should make a sacrifice for the greater good, but you should never give up hope that a cure will be found...persevere...

So what Im saying is...fuck some suicide...

This thread should be fun...

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[skalie]

I would imagine that under international law the suicide ship will be obliged to fly the Jolly Roger.

[FallenAngel]

<FONT COLOR="limegreen">I still dont understand how the government can justifiy making 'suicide' illegal to deter ppl from doing it ..... i mean if you want to commit suicide and are successful what is the government planning to do ...put you in jail ?

I think the government should not govern ppl 'lives' whether we choose to live or die is our concern and ours alone.

Abortion is something I am slightly more divided on which most ppl find surprizing because i have had to have an abortion myself. I dont think having an abortion as a means of birth control is right ... women who have more than one abortion i believe are abusing the right ... but on the other hand i do feel there are many legitamite reasons for women to have abortions:

health reasons - how hard of a choice is it to decided if you want your child to live or yourself? or for you guys, deciding wether you want your child or your wife/girlfriend to live?

financial - bring a chiild into the world then force it to live in poverity because you dont have the means to care for properly

emotional - this is prolly my strongest arguement. personally ... some women are not emotionally capable of caring or birthing a child whether they be too young or just emotionally unstable they are just not ready for hat kind of burden.

then i have my most personal reason of all:
picture a 14 your old child (not girl not woman, but a child) getting pregnant.. you can choose that she had sex willingly or she was forced or she agreed but only after being lied to and convinced it was ok. there many reasons. but picture her pregnant and in 7th, 8th grade. How can you tell this child she must have the child growing inside her? health reasons are incredably high so she will prolly suffer thru the entire pregnancy .. then she will have to birth it (or possible c section) either way she will be scared for life. then after she has it you have the delema of putting it up for adoption or making her or her family raise this child ... which after a few years the 14 yr old will prolly grow to dispise what the young baby represents.... or she will grow up knowing her child was given away before she could understand what that ment ...

these are just things to thing about if she DOESNT have the abortion ..

i can say i honestly regret having an abortion when i 14. but i also look back and try to picture my life if i had, had the child .. i would have been a outcast at school ... i dont think i could have let it go up for adoption which means i would prolly drop out of school to raise it ... by the time i would have been 18 i prolly would have hated the child because of everything that i was missing because i had it ... i try and picture myself now with what would be a 7 year old child i can tell you i wouldnt be living in a one bedroom apartment with a nice cozy office job ... i would prolly still be living at home ... working somewhere resembling mcdonalds and MAYBE about the time i turn 30 (child finally being 18) i would be able to get back on my feet ...

and yes like i said i regret having the abortion... nearly everyday i am reminded of the choice that I made... but if i had the chance i dont thing i would have made a different choice ..

</FONT c>

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And one time at band camp...

[This message has been edited by FallenAngel (edited 05-01-2001).]

[Dog Breath]

Thank you FA.

That was a real education. Looking at it from a 14 year old girl's perspective is very interesting. This is one issue my wife and I are at odds over. I am at odds with myself over it. I support the right to have an abortion but purely from logic. The dilemma to me is "when do a child's rights begin?". To me when a child would be able to survive outside of the womb abortion is wrong. Consider the case of "partial Birth" abortion. How is that different from dumping a live baby in a dumpster?

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[3MTA3]

RW remains reactionary...countering my public safety point with a metaphore on censorship(relevance??)...FA, although meaning good(and making excellent points), muddles the topic by throwing abortion on top of the issue...

So...

Where does it go from here...?? I still think my right to safety supercedes your right to kill yourself(one that you do not have by the way)...I mean, arent Libertarians supposed to be gung-ho for the Constitution and The Bill of Rights?? No where in either document is their even a hint that suicide is one of our inalienable rights...but it does say something about life...and some other worthless shit...no??

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[King Bastard]

<FONT COLOR="Red">OK, where's the problem here?

No really. Someone is in a world of pain, they've been there for who knows how long, and it will only get worse. They're gonna die anyway, so why prolong the agony? Let them go, and let them go on their own terms.

Now, as far as the s-e-l-f-i-s-h, Non terminally sick person who wants to end it all. Let them go as well. Fuck, if they have half a brain, they will do it in such a way as to have all the financial bases covered. I know of a few people who lost family and didnt have to pay shit against back debt, it was all in the dead person's name, and had clauses providing for death in there. We have all said that there are far too many peopel on this orb, even if it was half in jest. poppa Bastard said to me a long time ago "Every joke is half true, that's why the good ones are funny."

Abortion.

This ones a real motherfucker. I make no attempt to claim to know the woes of a woman facing that decision. but I do know what it was like to be 18 and facing fatherhood. My gf and I decided that it was in all of our best interests to abort the pregnancy. We were not ready to be parents, we would not have been able to provide for the child's future in any way. So I still feel that we had made the right choice. It didnt stop me form hurting about it, and yea, it carried a huge amount of weight on my mind about the ramifications of it all. The night that we had it aborted, I had another friend of mine in my car with me, just driving around. I had unconsciously drove right by the clinic. I stared at hte place, thinking that my child was in a dumpster somewhere behind in, smashed into who knows how many bloody bits.
So no, I didnt make that choice with my ex in a cavalier fashion. I felt the pain of it to an extent as well, and still do.

But I do feel it was the right choice.


OK, back to the suicide deal.

Should I find myself in a no win situation with my health... say I have ebola or some other really nasty death facing me, I'm going to punch my own ticket.

Why?

It will be on my terms. No one elses. my death that is. Hey, why fight your whole life to LIVE as you wish, only to die in a manner not of your choosing, taking into account that yoou are provided the luxury to choose.

Shit, I dunno. I wont try to tell any of you how to live or die, all I can do is let you all in on my take of things. Which I think I just did. sorry for all the circular bullshit in the above post. </FONT c>

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Borne of sin, C',mon in... Andre Linoge; Storm of the Century

[This message has been edited by King Bastard (edited 04-10-2001).]

[Dog Breath]

Which article of the constitution grants you the right to be safe?

The quote is....

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

The right to do what you want to yourself is Liberty. It ends at the point of doing something to someone else such as restraining them from committing suicide.

You have the right to life which means no one should take it from you. You also have the right to pursue happiness but you may choose not to excercise that right. Why then should a person not be able to choose to not exercise the right to live?

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[King Bastard]

<FONT COLOR="Red">Well I'll be damned, looks like there IS a banlist for words... must be some of that V-chip shit....

And I for one cant think of a way around it, yet.</FONT c>

EDIT: When in doubt, apply Napster logic... just mispell things in such a way as to have them still be easy to understand.
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Borne of sin, C',mon in... Andre Linoge; Storm of the Century

[This message has been edited by King Bastard (edited 04-10-2001).]

[3MTA3]

First they say you have no right to safety...then they say be responsible for yourself...then they say we dont need cops...were all responsible people...then THEY PIN A FUCKING STAR ON YER SHIRT!!

Fatty...you had better square yerself away or I will definately fuck you up...

Im sorry but I enjoy the protection afforded me by my "opressive" governement...they ensure that I can buy all sorts of nice shit and consume, consume, consume...Im a good boy...

Public Safety is a serious matter(wow, they even have commissions for it)...any person wishing to kill themselves poses a clear and present danger to those around them...

Also, from a police standpoint...what do I do if suicide is legal and lets say, my wife is barracaded in her room with a gun...threatening to off herself...I call the cops..."Oh, were sorry sir, but she can paint yer walls with brain matter if she chooses...call us when she dies and well send the coroner out promptly...thanks!!"...really...what the fuck??

DO you disagree with the proposed fact that suicidal people are a danger?? We can argue degrees of danger all day...I just want to know if you think my whole premise here is flawed...ASSHOLE WANKER!!

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[3MTA3]

Haha...yer a funny mother fucker, Chuckles...throwing around yer derogatory statements like so much feces...I understand yer monkey ass has trouble breaking routine, but lets get you out of the cage there Bubbles...and into the topic at hand...

I dont fear new responsibilities...but this isnt about me...its about maintaining the social contract...

Offing yerself is not a freedom...it is not a right...it is a choice that affects others as well as yerself...negatively...yes, theres a billion fucking situations to contend with...no, having suicide be illegal prolly never has and never will prevent someone from giving it a go...but it does allow for law enforcement to get involved...and in that sort of situation, they need to be...

I sacrifice nothing cause I had nothing...the right to die is not something I, or most normal people, are willing to fight for...if you wanna do it, fucking do it already and let us pick up the pieces...just like people smoke dope in the privacy of their own homes with little to no repercussions, you can kill yerself in the privacy of yer own home...I just dont ever want to hear of a situation like the one I described above actually coming to fruition...as it would be tragic in the severist sense of the word...fucktard...

Now quit it with yer personal attacks RW...we call that "bitching out" where Im from...and it saddens me to see you regress to it in less than 4 posts...I cry...<FONT size="-2">faggot...</FONT s>

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[Dog Breath]

Well 3MTA3 I finally see the light and can empathize with you.
I can understand the emotional strain you face when thinking of someone's suicide. Having been such a disappointment to your parents, their feeling of loss and wasted potential the utter angst of seeing a life wasted.
It is no wonder you feel the way you do.

I forgive your ignorance http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[3MTA3]

I will spank you both with my cock and then force you to eat each others shit off the tip just to keep you quiet...cumsuckers...

Apples and fucking oranges people...you cant compare the death penalty to suicide...they are worlds apart...stop clouding the issue with bullshit parralells...I dont buy it and its faulty logic...please dont make me mouth off about sylogisms and such...beeotch...

Call it what you will but I refuse to accept that suicide is A-OK!...its dead fucking serious(no pun intended)...Ive already stated my opinion so I wont reiterate...all I know is that a law prohibiting suicide is not another sign of a pervasive govt.*

*agreed, the govt. is pervasive...

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[Dog Breath]

Sitting on chair in front of my mahogany desk.....

3MTA3 on leather couch.....

Hmmmmm I see. Don't you think the reason you don't see this as pervasive is because you happen to agree with it?

Tell me about your Mother....

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Bah... I have much to say, but too little battery life...

1) There is a fucking HUGE difference between 'suicide' and 'physician assisted suicide for the TERMINALLY ILL'. Those who can't see that are morons.

2) I'm pro euthanasia

3) I'm anti suicide. It is the most *******, useless, fucked up thing a person can ever do. I think we should line up everyone that even contemplates suicide and shoot them before they get the chance to breed.

[3MTA3]

Fucker...that was unecessary...

How the fuck does agreeing with the govt. on a single point of policy make me a sheep?? Fuck that noise...and guess what... I think people should be licensed to operate motor vehicles! I think DUI should be illegal! I think car emissions should be regualted! I think children should be protected from predators! I think schooling should be mandatory for kids untill 16! I think I should pay for part of this schooling! I think youve bought into all the rhetoric Mr. Brown spews forth and that you truly believe a utopian dreamworld will rise from the ashes of what we currently have going! I think blind party loyalty and a well inflated ego plus a bit of exaggerated overconfidance entitles you to one free fleece!Enjoy the warmth you fucking zealot!! Youll need it when the whole system breaks the fuck down due to half informed decision making...

I may have to start another thread...

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[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Fuck this! Suicide is <FONT size="6">S E L F I S H !</FONT s>.

You grow up with no fucking Mother, living off an orphans benefit at the tax payers expense, before you even hit puberty and tell me bloody otherwise.

Anyone try to fucking tell me that it was in my best interests to be left alone in the world, and that I should not think of my Mums actions as self-ish, and I will rip yer fucking lungs out and feed them to you.

Thats ALL I fucking have to say.

http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/mad.gif http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/mad.gif http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/mad.gif

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Well, you know where I think you can stick your fucking logic.

I told you I could never be a proper libertarian because of certain issues.

Why don't you think long and hard about where a libertarian persepective leaves children Rogue, because it isn't fucking pretty. People who breed DO have obligations which interfere with their autonomy. Otherwise, you have to support child neglect.... Work out the fucking logic on that!

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

P.S. I think YOU are the one confusing S E L F I S H with rational egoism.

[PB]

Well personally I find Suicide to be a Permanent Answer to a Temporary Problem in most cases. But from being one who did at one point think about taking my own life... I believe it is my right.. If I know that I want to die, but can not find it in myself to pull a trigger and there are others that will gladly do it for me... then that is my decision to make. I have known several people who committed suicide, sometimes out of ignorance but sometimes out of necessity. Life is only a shell, I am not a religious person and really am confused with in myself about what I believe behind the whole "god" theory, but I do believe that I have a soul, when my heart stops beating I do not cease to exist, you just can not come visit my body anymore. But as for suicide, doctor assisted or not.. If I want to take my life, it is my life to take. If there is a god or not... It is still my right, not some being on high to say... ok.. you psychotic bitch.. time to die!

I don't understand when healthy people take their own lives, but it is their choice. When someone with AIDS takes their life, I would gladly take off my hat to them, they have prevented their own suffering as well as others. They haven't spread it further into the world. If you have a disease as such.. point blank you are going to die! Do I believe in the bullshit of keep hope of a cure.... HELLO WAKE THE FUCK UP MORON! There is a cure... But the Government and health officials make more money treating the illness and burying the dead then they would curing the world! So... Suicide self choice.. no one has that right to take it from you nor condone you for doing so to yourself!

[Buddha's Penis!]

the way i see it, classic libertarianism is a step away from anarchism. if everyone was to start thinking only of what their "freedoms" are and how everybody all the time is impinging on them (which they are), you get an angry malcontent bunch of people. i personally take full responsibility for my actions, and the punishments brought upon me by the government for those actions if necessary.
example: if i was to attempt suicide i would try to not be caught, because if anybody knew what i was doing i would be stopped. if i was caught i would accept that i need help (according to the "sane") and THIS is responsibilty. with no consequences, no boundaries, there is no responsibilty besides physical preservation. seems to me that libertarianism is the easy way out, a pipe dream, like the dreaded communism. it's socialism for the disenchanted, cynical marxism. instead of the benevolent government looking after everyone, or people looking after each other, it's one looking after him/herself but with the same result. like communism, it's not feasible. it's easy to shirk social and legal responsibilty by denying the system, but the simple fact is you're IN the system.

about suicide: i agree with 3ATM3, i think. i have the "right" to attempt suicide, but my loved ones have the "right" to try to stop me. if that means getting the law involved, that's what they'll do. people WANT these laws. they don't want to be forced to sit back and watch their poor depressed daddy blow his brains all over his station wagon, or little gothy tim hang his pale ass from the rafters.



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you don't know anything until you know everything.

[Cruise Director]

wow. a lot of good discussion. Even some discussion over a word ( S-----H ) that I used. http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif

Let's see.... somewhere in here I had a good quote about personal freedom.....aw, yes:

"You have the right and freedom to swing your fists any way you wish, until it touches the tip of someone else's nose."



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When I become World Dictator...HEADS WILL ROLL !!!!

[Koliedrus]

See? This is why I'm here. Debates of this magnitude tap deep emotional wells. It's like drilling for truth.

Death sucks. There's no way to sidestep that fact. It happens to us all.

I can only apply perspectives to myself.

If I become so emotionally unbalanced that I decide to off myself, I hope someone has the presence of mind and ability to stop me. If I'm ill with no chance of recovery, I'd want them to support my choice to live or die. Since death is the last event we will experience, I'd like to know that that choice was made with dignity and the understanding of those for whom I care. (I've always wanted to write a "that that" sentence http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif )

I will die. I'm ok with that. I have no intention of leaving behind a mass of mourners who hate me for making my last choice one of emotional stress. My earliest childhood friend recently caved in and left his family to fend for themselves without a father. I've yet to work up the courage to contact his parents since the words I have planned will either paint a false picture of sympathy or express the raw truth of how his death makes me feel.

As for abortion:

When Mrs. Kol and I learned that the child she was carrying had a significant chance of being DOWNS, we discussed the option. It took several weeks to decide that we would deal with it.

My son is singing as I write this. He's "normal" (which frightens me in and of itself).

I've been lucky. My circumstances cannot be thought of as average. Then again, I tend to make the best of what I have.

Die peacefully. That's my honest wish for you.

'nuff said for now.