the inferno

[MAC]

I am in purgatory.
“How so?” you ask.

Because I am doomed to push the rock of my ill placed failings to an elevated level each day only to find it at the bottom of the proverbial hill each morning.

Now you say ”Speak English, MAC”

Fine.
Example:

I go into a store I have been patronizing for about 17 years to find a “pretty” woman working there. No fashion model but pretty none the less. Then she smiles at me and her eyes light up and we talk a bit and before I leave I find she is VERY attractive.
(You ladies should keep in mind that what makes you beautiful isn’t just the part that holds lipstick. But that is another post.)
We visit a bit and I ask more delving questions, only to find that she is married with children. So be it. She is attractive none the less and talking to an attractive woman makes any day brighter. A few days later I visit again and this time she follows me around the store a bit talking to me. Then on the next visit, when it is just she and I, we discuss our children and she begins to open up to me about how unhappy she is in her marriage and I listen consolingly to a story that sounds oddly familiar. Regardless the woman or the place or the story I hear about men who do and say the things I did to my ex. I KNOW the intensity of the woman’s pain and the degree of her conviction to leave. And I haven’t 1 clue what to tell them. I cannot figure out the key to stop these fools from doing what I did. Meanwhile these women look to me for some comfort and perhaps a word or two of wisdom.
Meanwhile they are very attractive.
But I am the man they are describing.
How cruel a joke to play on me, God.
My conscience will not allow me to partake for my own carnal or emotional benefit.
But my good nature will not let me run away.
The things I find attractive in these women, dooms me with them.
I hope I bring them some comfort.
Yet I hope I do not give them false hope.

And now it occurs to me that this is (metaphorically speaking) my suffering for my sins.
It is also the temptation away from my redemption.
Redemption that, so far, comes only in dreams that vex me the next day and thoughts I want badly to make reality...yet for some reason don't.

Everyday I fail at my task.
Everyday I am at the foot of the same hill and everyday I find the same rock still down here with me.

Every time I leave these women I go visit my own grave

....and I never bring flowers.

[Koliedrus]

First of all, very eloquently expressed but that's nothing new coming from you.

Like you, I don't have a magical formula that will fix one's situation but its weight is understandable and familiar in some respects.

Careful. I'm about to concentrate a couple of decades into a few lines of text. You may need a chaser.

Limbo.

Ok, dancing might help but that's not my point. That boulder you're constantly pushing could crush you. If you let it, it'll become part of your routine. Lifting a weight tends to make one stronger over time. The similarities are accurate.


Right now, the weight is still new. Dealing with it makes you sore but you're forced to become stronger each day. Being able to lift this particular weight doesn't require a stong back or a large frame.

Notice that I metioned "decades". Yes, you'll have sections of your life where your closest companions are those already established. You may also find yourself overwhelmed by attention all at once, forcing you to make choices. Somewhere there's an unwritten rule that will make you deal with several relationships at once. (Granted, that's already in place).

I've gone through "dry spells". I didn't plan to focus my attention on myself during those times but as I did, I grew stronger.

When I stepped out of my self-imposed emotional funk...

Fuck it. I won't mince words. I was attractive.


Mac, you're not at the bottom of the deepest hole and your attempts to climb up the walls are supervised by people who care about you.

Glance up. That blueish-white stuff is sky.

Watch your footing and keep climbing. You're rope is secure.

Limbo.

[Asmodeus]

"Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all."

I can't remember who said that.

MAC and Kol, you both know the feeling of having a woman by yer side that you love and that loves you back. You may have lost her, but the feeling of both recieving and giving love will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Now I have never had that. I have never loved a woman, nor, that I really know, have had a woman love me.

It annoys me as well as scares me.

On an intellectual standpoint, I want to experience that.

But, on another standpoint, I don't. The situation itself- as well as the results- sound too damn complicated.

[morgana]

<font color="lime">i would say that this is a tremendous opportunity for you to absolve yourself of your sins, by helping her understand the man she is with.

i don't know you well, but you do not seem to be an evil man, and i don't believe that the things you allude to doing were done with ill intent. this is an opportunity for you to tell her that, and in doing so, perhaps help her see that the man she is with is not unforgivable. take some time to talk to her about the way you mishandled your relationship, and what you think might have fixed it, and maybe she can find the solutions to her own problems within your experiences. even if her relationship ends, at least she will have a better understanding of why he behaves in such a manner. and maybe you'll gain a better understanding of yourself in the process.

</font>

[MAC]

Lots of good sound opinions.
And advice along the same lines as my thinking.

But my aggrivation about dealing with these same women over and over stems from failing at love and knowing that a huge portion of it is me. Which means a huge portion of it is they aren't willing to deal with me....that sorta puts a damper on love.
Yet I am attracted to the same women who all have the same problems and I simple cannot get along with any other type of woman....but I cannot find anything half as good as my ex.

Now I am not writing this based on one gal in one place.

I had a date the other night.
A girl I knew all through school and never liked much.
(sound like a good recipe so far?)
Well she moved back and she is divorced etc etc.
I popped off we should get together on evening for dinner and she called me on it.
We went out and I was amazed to find alot of things I DID like about her...though the stuff I disliked is still there...
Luckily for me she has had nothing to do with me since.
apparently she doesn't care much for me either...I am not her type. (which is good because her life is seriously fucked up: no job, no car, 2 kids which are her's but she doesn't keep, a pile of health problems and she smokes)

Here is my limitation:

I have always been incredibly bad at knowing when to ignore the voice in my head that preceeds conscience. Its very similar to fear except without the panic. Mine tells me if its supposed to happen it will. Which is good because I SUCK at making things happen for myself. (wow there's a whole new topic I could write reams about...)

So for now a girl smiles at me and starts to talk and I smile back look at the floor and walk away.

I don't just want sex.
I don't want to date to "get to know them"
I need a fuckin connection.
I need something that works that I don't have to fuck with.
I am not qualified to make adjustments to my love.

When I came here I found a way to explore what I was feeling for this lady I married. I did, infact, love her and I am very happy for what she has and is making for her life.
But it was pure luck that she came to me to begin with...
If I let luck give me another I'll be on my way to the next-EX-Mrs-theMAC.
I am not any good at this.

[Venus]

No body's good at it MAC.
You are who you are. Use that oppertunity to try to help them. Like Morgana said, if you are like what they're describing, maybe you can give them some insight as to where the man is coming from. You can help them, and in that way help yourself.

[PB]

OK I have alot to say, some of it may be jumbled so you will just have to forgive me here...

If we were all good at this thing.... the world would be a much better place, but it doesn't happen that way... we all have our own quirks....

I am gonna say some things that may be better said specifically to you, but I know you so well from conversations on this subject... i'm just gonna lay it out here...

You and I are in very similar situations... have been for quite some time now. There have been days that I was so lost that I didn't know which way i was going to turn to run next... you helped me through that... when you had a rough day, I helped you through yours and we formed a certain friendship that can never compare to anything else.... but it also brings me to tell you that maybe somedays you shouldn't look up the hill, but rather what is standing in front of you. and maybe I should say that to myself sometimes as well.. but seriously... I think you want to let what ever is "supposed" to happen, go ahead and take place.... but are so afraid of it, you would fight it all the way, or just turn around and walk away. It's not a flaw... it's human! I do the same thing... just the other day, I had this absolutely amazing man stop and talk to me. He was good looking, confident, nice, and just seemed to be a good guy. He was definetly about to ask me out somewhere.... then my phone rings.. and who is it but the ex. when i got off the phone the guy was still standing there looking at me and smiling. I smiled back told him it was nice meeting him, and maybe i'd bump into him again someday, and turned around and walked quickly away.

HOw do you pass that fear? How do you let some one even remotely close to your heart with out thinking about what it felt like when that heart was damaged previously. Easiest way to avoid pain, is to not get near the flames... but if you do that, you'll freeze to death in the process. I guess I can give advice because it is advice i should give myself.... everyday i fight some feeling that is left inside me. I fight the desire to have someone so close to me i can feel their chest move as they inhale. I want the fear to leave me, and I want to be able to have that joyful feeling once again.... but it brings me back into fear and usually disappointment. Well as a great Billyman just told me... you don't get over it, you just begin to move on.

You said that you failed at love, there is not a "failure" when love is in the picture.... there is a reason that things like that happen, it's just generally a long ways down the road before we figure out what that reason is, and it's funny that it generally shows up when you find yourself happy again. Like with the ex... if i were happy elsewhere... i know dealing with what he left behind of me would be much easier... but i won't do it simply because i will not do to someone what he has done to me.
I thought I had failed at love too... I didn't fail... I just didn't get a high enough mark to graduate from that particular class.... I keep going to school.... never classifying it as a F, but more of an I, for incomplete. make any sense?

I've always been good at giving love, just never been good at receiving it, only because the person i usually am giving it to is a taker and not a giver./ I've had men love me, and several of them would still tell you they still do. but it wasn't "it" for one reason or another... I have seem so many people think that if they get married and it doesn't work out for whatever reason then their golden moment just kid of drifted out the window never to return again. Well that's just flat out not true. Love isn't something you search for, it's something you find.... but more importantly it's something you accept, not push away when it's shoved in your face. ya know/

I try to look at it like, yes i was hurt, and yes i will always love him, but maybe there is something even "better" in store for me. Maybe one day i'll find the man that is capable of taking my love for all the wonderful things it is, and giving it back. and i don't mean with one of those... "thanks, but no thanks" cards either. :P I stop and think somedays.. man it shouldn'tbe this difficult.... but if all love was perfect... what would be the point of the chase, and the part where you fall in love with them... what would make you appreciate the things that you have... what would make you hold her close at night, or make you tell your friends what a lucky man you are to have her in your life.

let it happen.. don't push it away....

somedays i think it's a shame that you don't open that aspect of your heart to me... because yes i think we would make quite the pair... but at the same time... i accept that it's not my role in your life... know what i mean.... but there is one thing....... who ever the lucky woman is that is capable of having your heart... it truely one of the luckiest women in the world to have it.

Val

[Koliedrus]

One of the most difficult moments of my life came when I decided to get back behind the wheel.

Ah, I'd gone off the college after breaking up with and getting back together with my highschool sweety. We broke up when I found out she'd been cheating on me. We got back together when she turned on the tears and made "the Face". You know, that pouty thing that turns a young man's heart to jelly.

While I was away, I learned that she went back to her playtoy. A newfound friend listened as I poured my heart out and suggested that we watch a local showing of "The Wall". I realize now that he was trying to tell me that my pain wasn't unique. Still, seeing it on the big screen didn't help matters.

After leaving the theater, we talked about my situation at length. Eventually, after watching me stare off into space and knowing that I was seeing my girlfriend in the arms of another, he suggested that we relocate. He knew the area and thought that trees, lake and sounds of silence would help me quell the anxiety and allow me to purge my thoughts.

Two of our friends were to have gone to the theater with us but had tests the next day. They decided to study. Good thing.

While talking and listening to a tape he'd prepared in advance, my eyes started leaking. The road got blurry. We topped a small hill and the road curved to the left. I geared down and stomped on the breaks; too hard.

We spun.

Later he told me that during the spin-out, I released the wheel and said, "here we go."


I woke up to a hissing noise and was unable to see from my left eye. I thought I'd popped it, judging by the blood that came away when I reached up to check. Turned out the blood was from a gash over my eye. My friend was gone.

I learned later that despite a fractured back for him, he'd run to get help. It wasn't until the ambulance arrived that he settled down. I rode at his side.

Before I left the car, I reached back to flick on the overhead light. It was two feet lower than it should have been. When I saw the back seats, I realized that our two studious friends' heads would have been shoved down their spines into their groins if they'd chosen to attend.

Getting back behind the wheel took a lot of convincing. Even today, a nerve in my neck acts as a reminder of how it was once broken. I didn't know that a pain in my shoulder came from such an old injury. I just learned to live with it almost to the point of ignoring it.

I don't drive the way I used to. That's also a good thing.


Some will see irrelevant rambling from this. Some will get the point. I'll clarify.

I'm injured. Nothing will change that. Nor has the pain magically disappeared. It took quite a bit of diagnosis to locate the source of my physical pain but it was professionally treated with great success.

My theapist's name: "Dr. Love"
I shit you not.
He was killed while jogging.

Love lead to pain that I will live with for the rest of my life. Because of Love, I can deal with it.

Because of Love, my daughter asks, "Daddy, can we go in your truck?"

Because of Love, I can smile and answer, "yes!", without much hesitation.

I'll always remember. I refuse to dwell on the pain.

[PB]

good story Kol...

Listen to this man MAC... his wisdom is far beyond his years,

PB

[MAC]

I appreciate the support and the insight

I didn't fail at LOVE in general
I am rather good at loving
I failed at the one I committed to
I failed her miserably and in doing so I failed our child
It makes my chest burn to think about that.

Right now I can say with great definition that I have NO intention of doing it again (hence kol's story makes its point that I have no choice as to do it again because of its importance to those I don't even know yet)

Being alone has never been a bother to me.
But I don't do love very well across any expanse and it requires closeness and dedication for me to show it.
I cannot and willnot open up in that way to anyone.
Hell, I won't talk to my own family about it and now I can't talk to my spouse about it.
I am not just gonna say how I feel.
Even to me......

What is clear is I DO NOT want to do what I have ALREADY DONE

and worse than that is watching others do what I have already done

do you think I didn't KNOW what I was doing?
do you think I didn't KNOW how it made her feel or how it was hurting things
yet I did it anyway
I can change these men no more than I can change myself

why?
thats the question here

my only answer is
INPUT

same woman
same me
same love
same situation
same result

fuck that

I need some new input
I am trying to find something I have overlooked or written off

something that works with who I am
something external

I get sick of doing for me
I refuse to ever attempt to chase my ideas down if its just for me

I saw something the other day that absolutely captivated me and I wanted to draw

I read about something going on in west texas and I really want to see it

I have to MAKE myself do these things and something about that is wrong.

even this thread...
I tryed a diary...know whats in it?
a couple half written letters, not even one whole thought
I won't write for me, it only makes me feel worse...

I guess technically putting this in the open for public review is selfish or cathartic....

except that it sorta sucks and is more than a little bit frightening to have to show this.
but I have to MAKE myself do it some times

right now though, I need to shut up and get back to work