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MAC
07-18-2002, 05:57 PM
I been trying to read this all day (http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/2002/07/18/story/0000148688)

Beijing orders Chinese women who are married to Taiwanese to have abortions
HOLIDAY NIGHTMARE: Chinese birth-control personnel have forced at least six brides of Taiwan men to undergo pregnancy tests and ordered them to have abortions
By Lin Miao-Jung
STAFF REPORTER
Chinese brides of Taiwanese men who went to China to visit their families were ordered by Beijing to have abortions or to undergo surgery to have their fallopian tubes tied. They were also fined and threatened with punishment under China's one-child policy if they had more children, a Taiwan official said yesterday.

The Straits Exchange Foundation (SEF, 海基會) yesterday distributed a news release to reporters saying that, since the beginning of last year, the foundation has received six complaints regarding such cases.

Patricia Lin (林淑閔), director of the SEF's Department of Legal Services, said yesterday the victims told the foundation that, if Chinese birth-control personnel found that a Chinese bride of a Taiwanese man already had one child, they would force her to undergo a pregnancy test and tell her to have an abortion if she is found to be pregnant.

According to Lin, Chinese birth-control personnel also told Chinese brides who already had given birth to two children to undergo surgery to have their fallopian tubes tied. The women were also fined and their children's identification cards were confiscated as punishment for violating China's family planning regulations.

In addition, even if such a bride was pregnant with her first child, the Chinese birth-control personnel would tell her to have an abortion because "they did not get permission from the government to give birth," which is required in China.

"The victims only described what the Chinese officials told them to do, but we don't know for a fact if anyone was truly forced to have an abortion because they keep it private," Lin said.

Lin said that China's birth-control personnel might not fully understand Taiwanese law, and viewed the Taiwan-based brides' babies as an added burden on an overpopulated China.

"Under current Taiwanese regulations, children from cross-strait marriages can be registered as permanent residents of Taiwan, so they won't be a burden to China," Lin said.

She added that China's actions have seriously abused the rights of those who are bound together in cross-strait marriages.

The SEF reminded these couples to prepare for similar treatment if they intend to visit China.

The foundation also sent a letter last week to its Chinese counterpart, the Association for Relations Across the Taiwan Strait (ARATS, 海協會), to ask it to protect the rights of Chinese brides.
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ummmmm
I just got to read this and am soaking it up.
You tell me....

Billyman
07-19-2002, 12:07 AM
I dunno Mac. I don't entirerly agree with China's rules and regulations. But, they are China's rules and regulations. I think it's fucked up but.........see last sentence. For the one's in the cross-trait marriages, the best thing for them to do is move I suppose.

MAC
07-19-2002, 01:45 PM
Ok, I read it finally.
Hmmm.....
Well, there's nothing there that more upsetting than the fact that they think "Chinese Birth Control personnel" is the proper way to handle over population.
It seems VERY wrong. Though maybe it will be effective quickly. Perhaps even one or two generations could see a drastic halt in th epopulation explosion there.

But I feel its ridiculous....unless these people go to work and begin to long for things other than families and lots of sons. (which is there traditional philosophy)

But that my capitalistic ideals again.

To the point of the story tho...they are saying that if a chinese woman marries a taiwanese man and LIVES in Taiwan then comes to visit China they can MAKE her have pregnancy test AND an abortion. I know that Taiwan belongs to china now but this sounds like the child laws don't apply in Taiwan. Only in mainland China. What happens if a chinese woman moves to france and marries a french guy and gets preganant then goes to see her Mom in China? Is this policy restricted only to chinese rules lands? or does it only apply while they are chinese citizens...what if they get married an dbecome legalised citzens? What if that doesn't show up on Chinas records...
The spread of policies like this is very very dangerous.
Yet what does it mimic in our own culture?

Koliedrus
07-19-2002, 02:06 PM
Crips and Bloods.

Did I get that right?

There is no sane reason to abort a child because one parent was born within the borders of another country. Especially when they're so similar in genetic make-up.

No, this is a bad bad thing. Again, I refer to experience in order to back up my opinion. My Mother was a WWII German. My Father was a WWII American.

I suppose I'm writing this on behalf of children who could make a difference.

Two Asian populations, one with military might along with the largest population on the planet and the other with financial strength and an enviable economy. How often have we seen "Made In Taiwan" over the past half-century?

Killing the offspring of those who cross the borders of politics?

Insane.

MAC
07-19-2002, 06:08 PM
A co-worker of mine made an excellent point.

If you move to a country to marry and live and work you NEED to either commit to the rights of citizenship and laws or understand that you are still under the laws of your old country as well.

People come to the US and get married and get jobs and have familys on somekinda "perminent visa".
There was a story about a british woman being deported whos husband died in the WTC. She had school age kids as I recall.

If you are leaving china...leave it...or be subject to its idiotic laws.
My grandparents never made a trip back to their homeland to see their family. Course they also learned our language and got shitty jobs and worked their way up...thenthey voted for every asswipe who said they'd loose their social security if they voted for the other guy.......

zim
07-19-2002, 07:49 PM
the only reason behind this is that china considers tiawan a renegade province and is punishing those they can.

iirc, we have a fleet of warships patroling that general area to come to taiwans aid should china invade it. --then again that may have just been a tom clancy novel i read

so the reason behind this is that china doesnt like taiwan.

Koliedrus
07-20-2002, 01:54 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/07/20/us.china.sanctions/index.html

I dunno. Is Taiwan a favorite pet being fought over by siblings? Siblings that feel like their parents (you) want them to get along?

Or maybe Taiwan is like Mommy and Daddy's credit card.

Two kids on opposite sides of the bedroom (planet), each with his/her own agenda and personality.

Uh oh. They're teenagers and the older brother hates the younger sister.

This could get messy.

philjit
07-20-2002, 04:24 PM
the way I see it this is just a case of Chinese/Taiwanese political postulating. Mac you asked 'would this apply if a chinese woman went to France and then came back for a visit' simple answer I think is probably not. As Dsylexic Tangent said this is just a China/Taiwan thing. It is pretty repugnant, but hey so is politics in general when you look at the wiring under the board ;)