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Billyman
12-28-2001, 05:54 PM
The slogan"God Bless America"will no longer be stamped on water bills in Lyon County because a property owner complained about a violation of the separation of church and state.

Lynn Arndell, district general manager for the Stagecoach General Improvement District in Lyon County, said she was instructed by the district's lawyer to make sure the slogan did not appear on any future bills.

She said the prohibition stems from a letter from John Messina, who wrote told the GID the slogan was offensive.

"You have irreparably violated my civil rights by using public resources to promote religion,"wrote Messina, who lives in San Jose, Calif., and owns property in Lyon County.

Messina told the Reno Gazette-Journal he wrote the letter because he is a strong advocate of the separation of church and state. He added that bills from government bodies, such as the Stagecoach GID, should not be used to send religious messages.

"I am an atheist, so I don't subscribe to a god,"Messina said."And I don't approve of my tax dollars being used to promote a god or a religion."

Arndell said many of the residents of the small community on U.S. Highway 50 between Dayton and Silver Springs were"irate"to hear the slogan had been forced off the bill.

"A lot of our customers just shook their heads when they heard about it,"Arndell said.

William Carpenter of Yerington, the district lawyer, declined comment.

Messina's letter was a hot topic at the weekly bingo game last week at the Stagecoach Community Center.

"There were quite a few people who were not happy with it,"said Carolyn Wardwell, a volunteer at the community center."Most of the people think it is a bunch of bull."

Added Rebecca Schalla, another Stagecoach resident:"The comment that was made at bingo: Is he using U.S. currency? Because if he is, it says `In God We Trust.'"

Messina said another message or greeting should have been used.

"There were a lot of things they could have said in support of our troops that were not religious, such as `United We Stand'or whatever,"Messina said."I said that in my letter, that they could have used a non-religious phrase."

Messina said some people are using the Sept. 11 tragedy to push their personal beliefs.

"I am offended that Christians have used this tragedy from the World Trade Center to promote their own religion,"he said.

Arndell said she got the idea to put God Bless America on the bill after seeing the phrase on a water bill sent to Dayton residents from Lyon County Utilities. Stephen Rye, Lyon County assistant district attorney, said he was not aware the phrase was printed on the Lyon County Utility bill.

"I would recommend that they not do that in the future,"he said.

Wardwell said she was upset that one man could change a policy for the whole community of Stagecoach. She thought it was worse because Messina doesn't live at Stagecoach but just owns land there.

"I am tired of one person being able to change the rules for the whole country,"Wardwell said."We had one woman who had prayer thrown out of schools and now we have one man from California who wants to stop us from saying God Bless America. I think this just stinks."

"It's time the majority rules,"Wardwell said."This is supposed to be a democracy."


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"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
--Albert Einstein

MAC
12-28-2001, 07:10 PM
You, know Billyman, you and I must be on similar wavelengths or sumthin..

I was thinkin a bout that very issue
(seperation of church and state) this morning.
__________________________________________
Before I start, let me add that you really should "block in quotes"

and I also don't make out your opinion here.
__________________________________________

See, I have a friend in New Orleans who is absolutely sure that supporting Israel is no better than covertly arming middle easterner because (in his opinion)one of the Jewish religion's end goals is to make every non-jew a slave.

Well, in my opinion:
that can be seen in every religion.
As the current events in the name of Allah prove once more even if all men had one name and one book of laws from God, they wouldn't read them the same.
Watch TV and see the Muslims on every night assuring non-muslims that the terrorists views are not the main stream.

Well, printing "In god we trust" on the water bill is like a white angel on the christmas tree.

It has only the meaning you put into it.

I constantly preach about the fact that if they take away one gun they can take away all guns.
Well, here's a guy who says
If they can put God on my water bill they can force me to worship him in my home some day.

problem:
The elected representatives of my gov't are the ones who write the legislation that starts the gun control ball rolling.

The local management of the water company who live and work where they sell their water are the ones who decided to show their patriotic (if it be religiously rooted) content.

Careful paranoia, you almost got the best of me.


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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

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zim
12-29-2001, 06:19 AM
In all honesty, if this country has decided that there be a seperation of church and state, then there should BE a seperation of church and state.

While I agree that it is harmless to print such things (mind you im assuming this was a government run utility, not a privately owned one), they simply should not.

"In God we trust" should be removed from our currency. Anything and all things the body of government itself does, should be independant of religion. Period.

Does this mean our president should refrain from saying "God Bless America" 5 hundred times during a speech? No. He's an American, he's a citizen of this nation and has the right to say anything he wishes. Figurehead or not. The worst kind of censorship is self-censorship.

But god, christ, alah, yahweh, and what-not, should in effect be stricken from the official constitution, and all government documents.

The pledge of alliegance should either not be spoken in grammer schools, or should be changed to remove the "under god" parts.

Im not saying we should censor a song, or a pledge... it should actually continue to exist as is, free expression... but students should not be expected to (and in some places they're required to) say such a pledge.

Just my dollar fifty.

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<center><IMG SRC="http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~mkomitee/blackhole[3].jpg" border=0></center>
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight: nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety: is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself." ~John Stuart Mill~

Minimaul
12-29-2001, 06:32 AM
Does "God" have to be "thier God?"

Why can't it be your god. Or no god.

Shouldn't people just interpet that to what they what they want it to be. Be it Allah , Budda , God , Jesus , Jebus. Whatever.


....ah..yeah. or something....


*scratches head*

Seem's as though if Church and state should be seperate , then they should be.


or something......i'm not politcal 'N stuff.

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Life sucks . Get a helmet.

zim
12-29-2001, 06:07 PM
Theres no problem with "in god we trust" if everyone believed in some form of diety or another. they dont.

seperation is seperation period... not seperation where people happen to have complained really loudly already.

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<center><IMG SRC="http://attila.stevens-tech.edu/~mkomitee/blackhole[3].jpg" border=0></center>
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight: nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety: is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself." ~John Stuart Mill~