View Full Version : gov't to regulate broadband
Spooky
12-12-2001, 04:36 PM
Don't mean to sound rude here mate, but that story says nothing about regulating broadband anywhere within it.
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[This message has been edited by Spooky (edited 12-12-2001).]
Spooky
12-12-2001, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>The president plans to request guidance on the best and most cost-effective ways to speed up development and usage of broadband technology and also seek technical assistance in his war on terrorism, the newspaper said.[/quote]
This is the only bit that mentions broadband specifically, and it does'nt say anything about regulating the industry.
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Remember. If a man you've never met before gives you flowers. That's marketing.
Spooky
12-12-2001, 05:14 PM
dude, you are leaping here surely. That reads to me like the Administration wants to make itself more savvy. If they were to 'regulate' the broadband industry it does, in turn, imply a total regulation of the telco industry too.
Any what if that regulation is market related anyway? Regulation can help markets to remain competitive and less stagnated if commited correctly.
Take the UK telco industry. If it were not for regulation we would still have BT as the single monopoly owner of the network, now all they have is the local loop, and thatnks to regulation by the freemarket advocates that is soon to end, meaning that the market becomes more open to competition, brings down prices for the consumers and breathes life into an indutry that currently is struggling.
Regulation is not, by definiton a bad thing.
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Remember. If a man you've never met before gives you flowers. That's marketing.
Spooky
12-12-2001, 05:29 PM
you shoudl have said content in the first place then, although I still don't see how the article suggests it.
BTW, I am not a socialist for gods sake!
But back to the point of regulation of markets. Hypothetically if you were english what would you prefer?
1: A single company in control of the entire country's telecommunication market through its inbuilt monoploy of the local loop as a result of 'socialist' policies in the 1940s and 50s.
2: A deregulated regulated market (yes I know this sounds starnge but its a true way of describing telco markets in the UK) in which the local loop was unbundled to all who wanted to provide services and lay copper and fiber, and one in whcih competition and innovation was encuraged through the use of subsidy to new providers wanting to get a foothold in the market?
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Remember. If a man you've never met before gives you flowers. That's marketing.
Hrmn, socialism is always bad? Let's reinstitute Ma Bell.
Dude, anti-trust is necessary to have a decent economy, and decent pricing on things.
The article doesnt even imply regulation. I'm with spooky on this one.
Call me pink, if wanting a good economy where theres a shot at competition makes me a socialist, im bright red.
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skalie
12-12-2001, 06:36 PM
Socialism is a relative concept.
For people living in them thar hills having hair is a sign of being a communist.
skalie
12-12-2001, 06:43 PM
The anarchy of the internet will never be controlled by the government, it aint possible.
They look for buzzwords, i.e. bomba, terroristmas etc etc, soon every message has those attached.
Too much data equals no data.
There are more than enough 12 year olds who don't like been told what to do to combat any attempt at squashing personal freedom www wise.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
Let's go to the map.
GWB has already made law legislation that smells funny to the least suspicious leftist fucking whackos. Primarily, that invovles the whole "War on Terrorism" and the hotly contested military tribunals, and the laws concerning ratting out terrorists.
[/quote]
Yes he has.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>
Now, under the same bogus idea, they're talking in very nebulous terms about appointing Czars in relation to brodband.
[/quote]
"The president plans to request guidance on the best and most cost-effective ways to speed up development and usage of broadband technology"
Seems he just wants broadband in every home as soon as possible. Whats wrong with the gov't giving in effect a utility a kick in the right direction? He's getting people to help him out... people who have more of a clue than him.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>
Do you really think I'm being paranoid here?
[/quote]
"and also seek technical assistance in his war on terrorism, the newspaper said. "
Depends on how you take that statement.
He's incompetent when it comes to the internet. He probably DOESNT realize that the only way to make the net not be a viable tool of terrorists is to completely monitor everything and everyone.
Perhaps he thinks it could be possible to have a group of government 'hackers' "patrol" the net and keep a look out for bad-hackers who are breaking laws that already exist. --thats possible, and legal, but not feasable without oversteppign their bounds, or being COMPELTELY ineffective.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>
DO you really want the government regulating the Internet?
[/quote]
Nope.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>
'Cause if you do, then I've wasted a whole lot of time and energy that I can never get back.
[/quote]
Define regulate.
If theres a feasable way to enforce existing laws without overstepping those laws and invading privacy and destroying the net, then they should do just that.
I personally dont see that as possible.
But getting smart guys to tell him that isnt exactly a bad idea.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
once again, though, i ask you to provide me with examples of situations where the government has gotten involved in something that they didn't eventually regulate.
[/quote]
Hard to do, since things rarely get much press if the government doesnt actually involve itself.
But how bout cryptography. They only regulation theyve done is not permit it as an export. Which makes sense --and theyve eased up on that.
They did take an interest, and all they did was improve standard algorithms. Amazing eh?
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>From www.rsasecurity.com (http://www.rsasecurity.com)
The NSA exerts influence over commercial cryptography in several ways. NSA serves as an advisor to the Bureau of Export Administration (BXA) at the Commerce Department, which is the front-line agency on export determination. In the past, BXA generally has not approved export of products used for encryption unless the key size is strictly limited. It did, however, approve export of any products used for authentication purposes only, no matter how large the key size, as long as the product cannot be easily converted to be used for encryption. Today the situation is different with dramatically relaxed restrictions on export regulations. The NSA has also blocked encryption methods from being published or patented, citing a national security threat; see [Lan88] for a discussion of this practice.
Additionally, the NSA serves an ``advisory'' role to NIST in the evaluation and selection of official U.S. government computer security standards. In this capacity, it has played a prominent and controversial role in the selection of DES and in the development of the group of standards known as the Capstone project. The NSA can also exert market pressure on U.S. companies to produce (or refrain from producing) cryptographic goods, since the NSA itself is often a large customer of these companies. Examples of NSA-supported goods include Fortezza (see Question 6.2.6), the Defense Messaging System (DMS), and MISSI, the Multilevel Information System Security Initiative.
Cryptography is in the public eye as never before and has become the subject of national public debate. The status of cryptography, and the NSA's role in it, will probably continue to change over the next few years.[/quote]
There ye have it, mainly export policy, which has been relaxed. If you read Applied Cryptography by Bruce Schneir, you'll also see that when the NSA has stopped people from patenting algorithms, most of those algorithms had later been shown to exhibit BIG FLAWS.
In DES they did take an interest, and all they did was improve standard algorithms. Amazing eh?
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>from www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~412/ln/lecture25.html
The 8 S-Boxes are the heart of the DES algorithm. They are tables of substituions. 6-bit input units are replaced with 4-bit outputs. The original S-boxes were the result of 17-person years of analysis by IBM . The goal was to produce a refersable mangling that showed no mathematical relationship to the plaintext or itself. The original S-Boxes were replaced by NSA. Initial speculation was that NSA added a back door. But after much analysis, this appear not to be the case. Perhaps they changed the S-Boxes, because they were afraid that IBM added a trap door. Regardless, it is not believed that the S-Boxes are in any way weak. [/quote]
elsewhere (again applied cryptography) it is argued that the change in S boxes improved the cryptography against a type of attack the public hadnt thought of, differential cryptanalysis.
Here's something that goes along with that
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>http://www.classes.cs.uchicago.edu/classes/archive/2001/spring/CS552/lect7.txt
People became very suspicious of the NSA. They wondered if they hadn't
built in some sort of trap door with those S-Boxes. IBM checked out the new
S-Boxes and they passed all of IBM's tests. But NBS/NIST certified it--NSA
basically has the world's best cryptographers--and for years people have
been working on ways to break DES. Brute-force attacks have become really
the only effective way to do it with the 56-bit keys that the NSA certified.
But in 1990, Biham and Shamir figured out a new way to attack DES and other
ciphers, a technique called differential cryptanalysis.
Without going into details, this worked great in theory, but for some
reason, DES was extremely resistant to it. How was this possible? This
technique was remarkably effective at cracking other older algortihms. The
reason was that the NSA had already figured out differential cryptanalysis
maybe 20 years before Biham and Shamir did. Remember, from above - the
NSA has the world's best cryptographers. Therefore, the NSA modified the
original S-Boxes to make them more resistant to differential cryptanalysis.
[/quote]
and so it goes...
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[This message has been edited by Dyslexic Tangent (edited 12-12-2001).]
skalie
12-12-2001, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
It's sad, to me, that bureaucratic inefficiency taints everything it touches and ruins so many wonderful possibilities.
[/quote]
Bureaucratic inefficiency is the only thing that keeps jobsworths employed in this computer age, sad indeed.
Still the work ethic and all that.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
80211a[/quote]
Illegal in Europe I heard, btw.
[This message has been edited by skalie (edited 12-12-2001).]
Looks like im wrong in this case.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Posted on slashdot 11/20
"MSNBC has a story about a new Carnivore feature, dubbed 'Magic Lantern,' which arrives on a victim's computer in the form of a virus through email or well-known vulnerabilities. Magic Lantern uses keylogging to extract keys typed in, and sends them off to the FBI. This is similar to a story reported on previously, but taken one step further, allowing computers to be compromised remotely." [/quote]
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>posted on slashdot 12/13
"A day after major anti-virus firms waffle on their support for 'Magic Lantern', and nine days after Thomas C Greene of The Register tried to throw cold water on it's existence, the FBI Confirms the 'Magic Lantern' Project Exist. Welcome to a Brave New World!"[/quote]
So the FBI confirms that the magic lantern project exists, which in effect automatically breaks into PC's worldwide using common exploits and viruses and sends logs of keystrokes to the FBI.
My only question:
So you've got the data, how ye plan on analyzing it?
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Koliedrus
12-13-2001, 01:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
once again, though, i ask you to provide me with examples of situations where the government has gotten involved in something that they didn't eventually regulate.
[/quote]
The airline industry?
And don't you dare jump my shit for asking. A calc prof did that to me once.
ONCE.
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May fortune favor the foolish.
Koliedrus
12-13-2001, 02:48 PM
Soldiers in the airports, sure. But what would We The People settled for as an alternative?
Gotta feel safe to fly to the dotcom you're trying to liquidate. Ain't no way you're going to fly to gramps' house with the kids for the holidays with all these maniacs running loose. Sure wish the government would get off their asses and give us some protection.
So now we have soldiers in airports. What's the alternative? Business as usual? Then we would rightly accuse the legislative body of sitting on their collective hands while planes fall to earth in balls of fire?
I have a solution.
Before boarding, passengers are anesthetized. Dosages would be administered depending on body weight, medical history, and flight duration. Everyone falls asleep before takeoff and wakes up upon arrival.
Hrrrrmmm. Who would regulate the drug dosages...
Ok, not a solution. I'll keep thinking...
http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/wink.gif
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May fortune favor the foolish.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by RogueWarrior:
The operative term in that statement is eventually.
There are soldiers in our airports now. What will it be next week?
[/quote]
Hey rogue, why not respond to my post about crytography?
And you throwing in your "operative word" of "eventually" means that noone can possibly give you an example, because we havnt lived yet to the end of time, to see what might happen.
Why dont you give me an example of a nation that the state of georgia does not eventually conquer.
Key word here is eventually. They may not have done so yet, but who knows!
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