<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Denominator:
You misunderstand me.
I never said guns were the cause of school violence. But they make it easier for some teenager to live out his frustration. It's just the pull of a trigger and your hated classmate's head explodes like you always fantasised it would.
Do you think these school massacres would have happened if the kids in question would not have had that much devastating firepower at their disposal? I don't. If they just had their bare hands to make a violent statement this wouldn't have happened. 'Cause they would have thought twice about attacking someone twice their size.
I cannot follow your logic. If schoolkids don't have a gun they cannot shoot anyone, however displeased they are with their puberty distorted world. Period.
[/quote]
Ok.
Kids in this country are not allowed to let it out physically.
And their culture tells them that is not acceptable anyway.
Our school practice "zero-tolerance" because if the principle whoops some kid who is hurting other kids he is BAD!
If the kids parents take them home and punish them for doing something so deviant from the familys morals they are BAD!
Society and its allowances and expectations are what has changed.
My point is they didn't shoot people before because they had an outlet.
It was understood that when you reached a point with someone you had to defend yourself or loose face.
And it was IMPORTANT then.
Kids are now just like they were then.
But they are restricted.
They are controlled.
They are confined to a legally binding obligation to be in school and follow politically correct rules.
They are medicated by their parents.
They are neglected because both paernts work.
Guns are a convienient outlet.
They don't want to loose face but they are forced to.
No matter how good they are for how long, once they are accused of somthing its over.
they can't defend themselves and prove themselves true.
*cough*
I PROMISE you.
If there were no guns the same actions would still be displayed over and over by the kids and we would be no closer to the answer.
They would use something else adn we'd see them on the fucking news every night.
They would have gathered in this group and ran around beating the bigger kids to death late at night under cover of darkness.
Like in olden days...
Here's a historic frame of reference.
When guns were invented who had them first?
The richest of the rich had them as
novelties or science experiments.
Then the armys put them to use.
As these became surplus and the market was realized the average citizen had the possibility of owning one (although this was slim due to cost and education of use)
Then the criminals realized that they needed them if they were to continue being criminals because of the possibility of the defense of their intended victims.
Now at this point you would say
"look that proves that without them there would be no need for them"
Like without the wheel we wouldn't need it.
Why did the armys take them first?
The aided their cause.
Why did the average citizen want one?
To improve their lifestyle and afford them protection with less risk than they faced on a daily basis.
Why did criminals want them?
Cause to continue being robbers and rapers they needed to protection from those they would victimise and those who protect the victims.
Now go back and replace "gun" with "crossbow" and then "sword" and then "spear"
Violent crime existed before guns.
And notably frequency of death was probably greater then due to medical practices or lack there of.
But crime has been isolated to a group of conscious deliberate criminals.
Whom the average citizen chose to seperate themselves from.
Now a criminal is "the quiet guy next door"
The average citizen identifies with the anti-hero and can't see how you could use a gun in defense and not be a cold-blooded killer out for blind vengence.
They expect you to own a gun and be a killer just like they accept their president/congressman cheating on his wife over and over.
But most importantly.
The kids who commited these massacres where allowed to commit them by a society that rewards the people who do not care about the consequences.
In my truck all the time is my rifle.
If I get mad and shoot someone cause they looked at me wrong I loose my wife, my kid, my job, my cars, my guns, my money, my free time, my fishing, my dinner, my internet access....I value these things too much to throw them away frivilously.
If I was a criminal who didn't care about any of that because I wanted YOUR car, money, wife, kid, etc what do I care if I go to jail and loose what I didn't have to begin with?
Now I get a free place to sleep and eat and wash and read and someone wakes me up each day and gives me health care.
These kids honestly saw nothing better than what the worst could be out of these shootings.
Maybe they'd be bashing some assholes head in with a tire iron instead.
Maybe they'd be sniffing paint and frying their brain instead.
They obviously have NO reason to NOT be like that.
Or do they?
If so, they don't know it.
I stand firm that its the condition that needs to be addressed and not the guns.
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The #1 use for a gun defensively is against a superior number of men.
Unless you're rich you cannot support a superior number of men.
Hence freedom from oppression and the reason we are given the right to a say in our government (tho the non-gun owning populace doesn't seem to use it)
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Note:
Keeping guns away from idiots is a good cause.
Gun owners should be incharge of it.
They should have opportunities to support their gun shops and organizations locally.
If people see firearms being used properly they will find respect for them and respect saves lives...
Instead they see guns possessed and used to support their pride.
Pride causes deaths.
See: today's news.
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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.
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