View Full Version : What was it like before...
Back Tick
09-11-2001, 07:09 AM
...before the blatant materialism that we see every day around us?
What was it like before worth was a matter of the quality of your character, as opposed to the content of your wallet?
Before we became a throw-away society, and what we DID have for material wealth would last longer than a year and a half?
Before the central focus in the lives of the population became production for its own sake?
Back when life was worth living?
Back when the US government was the US government, and we werent giving up our rights rapidly "for the children"
Back when there was something "worth fighting for"
Back before breast augmentation surgery and facelifts created a direct correlation between beauty and wealth.
Back when you mattered, and your skin was secondary, and your clothing was tertiary?
What was it like before the world packed itself up and sent itself off to hell in a handbasket?
How long before the rest of the world realizes western civilization isnt all its cracked up to be and tries to get a grip on reality and existance?
We're so enchanted by what our science and technology can do, and how fast it can be done that we dont have time to get used to it.
We lack morally intellectually and spiritually the ability to properly deal with that which we create.
What was it like before all of this?
When was it that we switched to a disneyfied culture? To a throw-away culture? To a ignore-the-consequences culture? To a complete lack of moral responsibility?
When did it happen?
Why is it that it is perfectly normal for people to completely ignore and REFUSE the existance of responsibility.
Is culture and society in the middle of a suicide attempt? Have we given in? Is there no alternative to moving forward?
Is the current idea of "forward" really where we need to be going?
Questions, all questions... no answers.
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Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe.
Mr. Snrub
09-11-2001, 07:10 AM
I think it was called WWII.
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Back Tick
09-11-2001, 07:14 AM
Then perhaps this recession/depression is exactly what we need.
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Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe.
Back Tick
09-11-2001, 07:17 AM
Who do we have representing our time?
President Clinton? Nick Nolte? Kofi Annan? Brittney Spears? The Beastie Boys? 98 Degrees? President Bush? Good, or bad stock prices?
Is this the American Culture?
Sadly, it is.
Its spreading. Japan and other eastern nations are westernizing rapidly, in some cases taking the lead.
What is our culture? is it the culture of the dollar bill? The yen?
Where are we going?
Where have we been for the past 10 years?
Are we better for having been there?
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Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe.
Mr. Snrub
09-11-2001, 07:35 AM
I don't think a single individual has ever represented the entire zeitgeist of a particular era.
And I think any culture that looks in on itself at a particular time finds itself shallow.
When looking back we tend to give the benefit of the doubt, and the more mundane, souless things that have always taken up the majority of most people's time aren't recorded in the history books.
Culture exists, if you look for it. The movie industry is a prime example.
There has always been pop culture. There were pop groups in the fifties. The Inkspots come to mind. Ever heard of them? Of course not. Ever hear of Louie Armstrong? Of course you have. Pop culture isn't usually remembered. Thing of history as a sieve that clears out the clutter and allows the gems to be easily identified.
On the other hand, I must accept that recent generations have been without any great trauma and are probably the worse for it - they lack a sense of perspective that was painfully obvious to their predecessors. Without great things to concern themselves with, they become preoccupied with trivialities, and become trivial and unimportant themselves.
But is the stress worth it? WWII may gave granted maturity, but was it worth 50 million lives?
The truth is, great things are happening in this day and age - the reason they seem to slip notice and deny memory is that they are for the most part positive, and do not impart any trauma. Remember, pain is the greatest teacher.
Computing, bioscience, robotics - all are achieving great things. But as they are positive they are ignored. That is why we get a skewed view of our own time. I think future generations will be more generous.
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Buddha's Penis!
09-11-2001, 07:42 AM
that's true, snrub. i don't imagine people in the midst of the Depression thought they were the height of civilization, or that their lack of materialism made for easy living. society is a balance, pros and cons, and these things change.
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you don't know anything until you know everything.
Nutrimentia
09-11-2001, 08:40 AM
These are good questions, but I don't think they are necessarily new issues, just new environments that the behaviors manifest in:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Back Tick:
...before the blatant materialism that we see every day around us?
Materialism has been a part of human culture ever since we've been human, but I realize that you are talking more of the consumerist materialism that we see dominating the socio-eco-cultural landscape. However, this is just the outcome of standard cultural evolution, driven by marketing and mis/understood symbolic belief systems.
What was it like before worth was a matter of the quality of your character, as opposed to the content of your wallet?
[B]Before we became a throw-away society, and what we DID have for material wealth would last longer than a year and a half?
[B]Before the central focus in the lives of the population became production for its own sake?
[B]Back when life was worth living?
I disagree here. I think that life is most definitely still worth living. I actually believe that we are one of the last generations of humanity that will be able to enjoy just living life for a long time. Soon, most of life will revert back to struggle simply for survival.
Back when the US government was the US government, and we werent giving up our rights rapidly "for the children"
I don't follow you here, but I think the U.S. government reflects American culture most excellently. This doesn't mean that I think that all Americans agree with or condone the actions of the USG, but the USG acts exactly like you would expect an American too.
Back when there was something "worth fighting for"
If the future isn't worth fighting for, what is? The ecosystem is about to collapse, taking 95% of the species with it. Go fight for that.
America is populated by morons who don't know how to think. Go fight for that.
Back before breast augmentation surgery and facelifts created a direct correlation between beauty and wealth.
[B]Back when you mattered, and your skin was secondary, and your clothing was tertiary?
This was never the case as far as I can tell. What you wore, the color of your skin, the part of town/ mountain/ etc where you lived, the status of your family, etc. have always been used to define "better' and "lesser" peoples. I'm not trying to just shoot down your points because I really do agree with the overall intent of what you are saying.
What was it like before the world packed itself up and sent itself off to hell in a handbasket?
[B]How long before the rest of the world realizes western civilization isnt all its cracked up to be and tries to get a grip on reality and existance?
[B]We're so enchanted by what our science and technology can do, and how fast it can be done that we dont have time to get used to it.
[B]We lack morally intellectually and spiritually the ability to properly deal with that which we create.
Absolutely. We need to be asking if just because we can do something does that mean we should do it more often.
What was it like before all of this?
[B]When was it that we switched to a disneyfied culture? To a throw-away culture? To a ignore-the-consequences culture? To a complete lack of moral responsibility?
[B]When did it happen?
[B]Why is it that it is perfectly normal for people to completely ignore and REFUSE the existance of responsibility.
[B]Is culture and society in the middle of a suicide attempt? Have we given in? Is there no alternative to moving forward?
[B]Is the current idea of "forward" really where we need to be going?
[B]Questions, all questions... no answers.
I really think the biggest problems (and incidently the greatest progress as well) came with the introdcution of TV. Television brought us together under one socio-cultural mantle and gave advertisers the conduit to tap directly into our hearts and homes.
[/quote]
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<IMG SRC="http://gusalmighty.com/ugb/uploads/Nute/vgirl.gif" border=0> The Law of Fives (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/14-18.html#pg16) is never wrong. Hi-Yo!
edit: tags, tags, tags, bastiches never work for me.
[This message has been edited by Nutrimentia (edited 09-11-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Nutrimentia (edited 09-11-2001).]
Nutrimentia
09-11-2001, 08:48 AM
Fuck it, I can't get the tags to work so I put Bs in front of the Tick's lines.
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<IMG SRC="http://gusalmighty.com/ugb/uploads/Nute/vgirl.gif" border=0> The Law of Fives (http://www.principiadiscordia.com/14-18.html#pg16) is never wrong. Hi-Yo!
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