Not allowed to x2

[Escape Artist]

I've seen a few people get ruined thus far at THT - illustrious as it is, with its dev based server et al (in-crowd there - mostly concepts) - so:

What would you people do if you could?

Billy, you're half fucked and half a business owner.
Cruise, you run things, and yet, you don't. It HAS to be frustrating.
Kol - you eventually refused to run things because you hated it, and so did Sid. Is that still okay?
Mudflap - you took what you hated for a degree and turned it into a paying job - do you resent this, amigo? Not in the office anymore, is this okay?

I would include others (mac, for example) but it just isn't right to do so.

it's a horror show altogether.

have at it, ask yourselves these questions....wonder, for chrissakes.

me - i'm fucked in the morning. go away.

[Pianomahnn]

What the hell is this thread about?

[Mudflap]

I don't follow you, ea.

Rephrase the question and I'll do my very best to answer it.

[Cruise Director]

I realized a long time ago that there is always somebody else in charge in my industry. I'm okay with that. One day I may choose to run my own business but even then, depending on the type of business, there will more than likey be somebody else in charge.

As I move further up the corporate ladder there are positions I can take that have more autonomy than others. My position right now, Store Manager, probably has the most. Sure the company dictates pricing, most of my merchandising and a large portion of my job, but as a Store Manager, they have my buy-in to help promote the company overall. Where I can make a difference is on the customer service side. I can create a customer base that only wants to shop my store and I can take customers with "less than desireable" experiences and make them bleed orange. I can also be an employer that associates want to work for. To some extent, I can control the turnover and churnover rates in my building. I can also control the profitability by managing expenses and rates of sales.

I really don't know if I want to pursue the District Manager position. Being responsible for 10 to 15 building thats I cannot directly control doesn't really appeal to me. I like being able to go to work and make a difference EVERY day that I am there.

Hope that answers your question to some degree.

[Billyman]

I've seen a few people get ruined thus far at THT - illustrious as it is, with its dev based server et al (in-crowd there - mostly concepts) - so:

What would you people do if you could?

Billy, you're half fucked and half a business owner.


I’m not sure where I got ruined but……….

I learned a long time ago that I’m fully fucked. A half fucking would indeed brighten a day, a week, a year or years. But I’m only fucked in certain aspects. In some, I’m fully blessed.

I’m still working toward my own business but who knows. Maybe one day……..it’s something to shoot for none-the-less.

[Asmodeus]

We are all fucked. We are all blessed. It's finding the middle that sets us apart in the day to day struggle for sanity.

More to the point?

Satisfaction in haves/have nots? Wants/needs? Desires/pipe dreams?

Reality and realistic pusuits are the meat and potatoes of being functional. Speaking of which I am still sometimes surprised I am cognitive and at least partially coherant.

[Escape Artist]

I'm still not entirely sure.

Suffice it to say I think about a lot more than I probably should in any given day, and I still think too much in black and white on the judgement end. Makes it easier to process all the info, I guess. Take whatever you will from my questions and answer accordingly - it all goes in the same chute. I don't presume to make sense anymore - nor do I think I'm amazingly smart. I have a decent brain and I'm still crazy enough to wonder about the things that don't entirely make sense - so I ask half-senseless questions and delve into absurd subjects.

Maybe I'm just delusional, or plain stupid - but I see a ton of potential in a lot of people I meet (you guys particularly) and it seems like the biggest fucking sin in the world that it's so bloody hard for any given person in this country to simply do what they can, as best as possible, and profit from it - whether in satisfaction or cash.

I'm still pretty young, dumb, and fully-fucked myself. Lot of you started out where I am and made something of it, so I guess my question is mostly a progress report of sorts - are you happy where you are now?

If you'd made better financial and academic choices along the way, knowing what you know now, would you still be doing this stuff for a career, for a hobby, or just to do something?

Why the hell is it that the people who have clawed themselves into a position where they can hire other people to work for them often ignore their employees, rely on turnover and part-time hours, throw away retention goals, and all this other garbage we all encounter at some point? It can't entirely be profit based, and the capability and stature of a man, in my estimation, isn't some lifelong thing to determine - it's there or it ain't. But there it is, nonetheless.

Billyman is fucked, because he could easily be another Roush or another Shelby - except it seems to me that people in general have lost so much fucking confidence in potential that he'd have to be Atlas, in a sense, to build up this potential business.

Cruise, if given a chance, is actually one helluva leader. But who is realistically left who would walk up and pay him more and give him something even greater - the opportunity to have and run a business based on his relatively advanced skillset?

Hell, look at your peers on this godforsaken ruin of a website - MAC alone could build skyscrapers, Kol has a heart that would swallow this universe up, if it could, Asmo makes the jack of all trades stereotype reminiscent of a burger flipper...

And here we are, debating about it on a website, looking around, and being half-stuck in our ways and means.

In a thread started by a half-psychotic, workaholic 20 year old.

Maybe I oughta just quit trying to apply logic and reason to this stuff.

[Asmodeus]

Was I just called a burger flipper? ... kidding.

Really EA, logic and reason are "good things to have, hold dear, and close to yourself"... everyone needs some Sherlock Holmes in their diet. But, there are also some things that cannot bear up to scrutiny when read through the glasses of reasonand logic. The why's, what for's, and what not. Some things are just there and we have to react to them. It took me years- and I still have trouble accepting it- that there are some things(cultural, social, intellectual, etc) that no matter how logically you look at it, and how much good could come of it if it were changed, willnot be changes because it is human nature to be greedy, despicable, trecherous, deviant and selfish. But just as it is human nature to be valiant, trustworthy, honorable, and true.

Find the middle ground or you will go nuts. And once you go nuts you will find me staring at you through that damnable mirror. :)

"I think, therefore I haven't drank enough." Voltaire just rolled over in his grave me thinks.

[Escape Artist]

I always wonder, though much of this does seem like a train wreck - and it was a compliment. :p Albeit veiled.

Here's what I wondered while I made some tea - and it's pertinent to a few issues touched on...however clear I've made them:

What if, say, any of you worked for a simple, single owner of a successful business that had much growth potential. (I think this question is especially pertinent in the case of someone like Cruise or Kol, who are in important support positions..)

De Boss-Owner comes up and offers you a simple proposition - another location will be opened. You will run it solely. If you can take what you've learned on the front line, and turn it into a phenomenon (much like Home Depot eventually became) then you will be given a business of your own - lock, stock, and smoking barrel. You use what you already know from experience, and add your own innovations to it, in essence.

In return for whatever additional success you get, the person you worked for and got this from gets your secrets and strategies you used, and neither one of you are allowed to compete with one another, but you both *should* benefit.

I dunno how well this would work out on paper with profits and losses - remember, I suck at math - but it's an interesting thought. Seems to me it happens already to some extent, but not with those kind of potential rewards.

[Cruise Director]

You bring up good points about retention and turnover. Too many bosses let employees struggle on their own and figure its' a means of "trial by fire." They figure the cream will rise to the top. What they don't realize is that cream doesn't rise by itself, but requires constant attention and needs to be forced around and worked to get it to rise.

Most managers also don't realize the difference between training and development. While training can have immediate effects on a person's work capacity, development is often something where the results are not seen until the distant future; it's easy to sacrifice the development of employees in response to short-term goals and emergencies.

[Escape Artist]

i supply this, for whatever it is worth:

too many managers, supervisors, and owners rely on the mid-range denominator for employee material as a compromise between turnover rate and projected payscale / vs potential profit & threat to business model.

good employees, IMO, have the company (be it bleed orange, inc or billy bob's lawnmower service, LLC) in mind, their desired eventual worth/pay rate, and a healthy idea of what they, the owner, and their product can do in order to produce the profits/job security/customer satisfaction necessary to achieve these goals. they help the managers, the customers, and themselves.

entirely too many hire on the basis of keeping their own jobs safe. it's something i will be on the lookout for if I'm in a hiring position eventually - i'm profit/customer satisfaction minded, above all. I see good people, people who would make me money and have happy customers by the boatload getting declined, someone's getting the axe. Hopefully I'll have the foresight and the wisdom to keep from getting caught up in my own misconceptions.

regardless, i do think american businesses are in need of - and will suffer - a revolutionary change in methodology...there are people who can and want to do it better, with more security, and with better quality - provided a market exists to provide them growth.

we're all temporarily fucked in the process, imo.

what do i know? :p

[Koliedrus]

You bring up good points about retention and turnover. Too many bosses let employees struggle on their own and figure its' a means of "trial by fire." They figure the cream will rise to the top. What they don't realize is that cream doesn't rise by itself, but requires constant attention and needs to be forced around and worked to get it to rise.

Most managers also don't realize the difference between training and development. While training can have immediate effects on a person's work capacity, development is often something where the results are not seen until the distant future; it's easy to sacrifice the development of employees in response to short-term goals and emergencies.

Wow! I'm taking that to work with me (as concept, not hardcopy) so that I can share it with someone who really needs it.

I've been on the Management Fast Track. The only reason I stepped on that walkway was because I was convinced that if I didn't take charge, my next boss would be someone with an IQ of 70. I'll keep the details in my head for now but suffice it to say that my potential boss was a regular at the jam sessions.

I train. I'm not paid to do so but I realize that if an employee doesn't understand the basics, it affects an entire group of people. Management reaps the benefits of a confident group of employees as they're (managers) rotated from one position/location to another.

I've watched the spotlight shine on department managers. Ten years ago, the spotlight burned them up as if it were a microwave beam. It's beginning to seem as if that phenomenon has been noticed.

I drew a line (with Sid's support) between work and family several years ago.

She described that day as my Catharsis.

I didn't want to "give up" but the requirements would end up taking me further and further from my family. I'm fortunate that when I decided to step down, my supervisor was a compassionate soul who understood my perception and my values.

I've been called a lot of things. Not all bad. I'm fairly proud of several.

So far, the most important title I've been given is "Daddy".

My bosses are too young to drive. My business is to see that they have the same range of choices that I had while growing up.

Theres my "spout". Hope it helps.