Forgiveness

[Pianomahnn]

Split this thread outta my original forgiveness thread.

[MAC]

I'd say forgiveness comes when you realise that you were wrong
(regardless of what the other person was)

'let he who is without guilt cast the first stone' and all that jazz

[Koliedrus]

I'm only human so in all honesty my own ability to forgive depends on the circumstances surrounding the situation that requires forgiveness.

It's easier for me to forgive someone for something they did to me. Much MUCH harder to forgive something done to someone else.

But, if someone I love forgives the person who has done them wrong, that's good enough for me.

I have limits, though. Don't ask me to forgive Hitler.

Sometimes you have to just sayhttp://www.cox-internet.com/meshboy/images/mac/findhimandkillhim.jpg

[SimpleSimon]

Don't ask me to forgive Richard Mims.

[sauron]

This world sure would be a bitter place without forgiveness...


- d.

[jess]

For me, forgiveness isn't too hard, it's forgetting that's rough.
I can forgive about anything, I can forget nothing.

[Billyman]

‘Forgiveness’ is a loosely used word.

[ms. bing]

sometimes "forgiveness" is loosely adapted to cover the territory of "get over it". you can get over something somebody did without ever forgiving it. it happened, whatever, you're over it. forgive it? hell no. that would be becoming complicit, saying that it was ok to do such and such thing.
i tell kids almost every day that they need to get over something a classmate did to them, but i rarely ever tell them to forgive. personally, i know little about that.

[Koliedrus]

Well, shit. I need to borrow Teh Hat and invoke the Colonel at the same time. I hope you'll forgive me get over it in advance.

Mom used to take trips to her hometown in Germany every other summer. On one of the last summer trips she took, my dad had been medically discharged from the Army, my brothers and sister all had places of their own and I was still in middle school. Most of that summer with my dad was great. There was just this one day...

I'd noticed him acting a little withdrawn that day but he wasn't the kind of person to discuss his feelings too readily. We ate lunch and I took the dogs out for a bike ride with Joey (good friend/little brother of mine for those who don't know).

When we got back at dusk, dad had apparently let the emotions he'd bottled up pop his cork. I got a "where the hell have you been all day?". It was summer, I was a kid riding bikes with my friend and my dogs. We went where the day took us, exploring places we'd never been and just being kids. I didn't give him an itinerary.

He raged at me. Told me that my bike was headed for the junkyard in the morning. Now, this is the same bike mom bought for me the first time she had to go to Germany without me. "Don't open this envelope until my plane is over the ocean", she'd said. Inside was a blank check and a note telling me to get any bike I wanted.

Well, no way was I gonna let it end up on the scrap heap so I ran to the basement and wheeled it down the street to Joeys as dad yelled out the window at me.

"Get your ass back here", he bellowed.
I did, eventually, but not before parking my bike at Joeys.

I don't recall the exchange of word that came afterward when I got home. Dad was at the top or the stairs roaring down at me and I squeaked back at him as loudly as I could. It ended with this exchange:

"Get up here right now!"
"NO!"
"What?! Why?!"
"Because I'm AFRAID of you! Is that what you wanted to hear?"

He looked shocked. Then all the anger left his face, his shoulders slumped, he turned and walked to the den.

It took me about an hour to work up the nerve to check on him. Just before I poked my head around the corner, I heard a sob and a sniffle. Dad didn't cry.

He was sitting in the dark with the tv muted, holding his forehead. I approached quietly, knelt next to him and put my hand on his. He looked down at me with tears in his eyes, surprised that I'd caught him in such an awkward position, reached out his arms and embraced me.

With his face burried in my hair (I had lots back then) he sobbed, "I'm sorry."
I still remember the sound of his now silent heartbeat as I held my ear against his chest. I couldn't help but cry myself after such a lengthy, emotional exchange and seeing the man who had always shown such strength caught off guard in a moment of weakness.

"I love you, daddy. It's ok."
"Thank you", he said before kissing me on the head. "I love you, too."


His wife was across the ocean, his oldest children had places of their own and I had left him alone to go do the things little kids do on a beautiful summer day. He didn't even have his career to abate the lonliness he was feeling.

We forgave each other but that wouldn't have happened without mutual apologies.

Imagine if we had said, "get over it", to each other.

So, like I said, it depends on the circumstances. That situation is one that reflects what Mac said up there. I have an ex-girlfriend who joined the Air Force, promised that we go through with our plans to get married once her tour was over and got married to someone else without so much as a "Dear John" instead. To this day, if I saw her on the street, I'd dot her eye unless she got out the words, "I'm sorry" before I complete the punch.

Forgiveness has a counterpart called "apology". If you've ever needed to be forgiven for something, you can only hope that words will express your regret for the wrong you've done. Many times it takes deeds as well.

If you can't forgive, neither should you be forgiven. Sometimes all you have to do is ask.

Hat's off.

Sorry about that ;)

Edit: Simon, neither would I.

Jess, as you can see, same here.

[SimpleSimon]

Good story.

Richard Mims will never receive forgiveness from me. He cannot apologize in any meaningful way for murdering Julie.

"I'm sorry", just won't cut it.

[Koliedrus]

As long as you look around you and realize that an act of un-forgiveness will only make things worse for those you love, you're giving him better than he deserves. He took part of you, don't ever let him take more.

[SimpleSimon]

As long as you look around you and realize that an act of un-forgiveness will only make things worse for those you love, you're giving him better than he deserves. He took part of you, don't ever let him take more.


I made that decision 4 years and nearly 5 months ago.

When my time comes, if he still lives, then I'll re-visit that decision.

[Koliedrus]

That would be revenge. I'm still only able to look at it from the outside (for which I'm grateful since no one so close to me has been murdered) but I would consider it an act of apology if he were to take his own life and suffer whatever consequences there may or may not be in a hereafter if one exists.

You've done well so far. I hope that your example can be one worth following.

I may not be able to follow my own advice should something like that ever happen to me.

I reitterate, it depends on the circumstances.

[SimpleSimon]

Fair enough.

[Koliedrus]

I plugged the word "Foregiveness" into google and came up with (of course) several selections.

Here's one: http://www.forgivenessweb.com/apologies.htm

Take a read.

Fine and dandy to get stuff off your chest but it has no meaning unless it goes where it should.

Those are trees falling in the forest.

[SimpleSimon]

...Those are trees falling in the forest.

Indeed, and I do not hear them.

Mims could apologize on his knees before me and beg my forgiveness. He'd receive it, too - as soon as he stuck the barrel of that pistol in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

[Koliedrus]

Now that we have an extreme definition, what are some of the ones that deal with less?

Fire them up and let's burn them down to the carbon.

Sorry about Get over the pressure but it's required to produce a diamond.

The first part is the most painful.

[SimpleSimon]

Hypotheticals in ethics is not a game I wish to play.

There are those who have wronged me whom I have forgiven, in times past. There are others who have not sought forgiveness, with whom I no longer associate and whose presence I actively avoid. There are those I have wronged whose forgiveness I have sought. I do not care to go into either category in detail.

Forgiveness is as personal a choice as there can be. As in all else, I make my choices on a case by case basis, and I deal with the consequences of my choices.

Enough said.

[Koliedrus]

"Foregiveness" is neither hypothetical or a "game".

Good statement, Simon.

[mute]

Just the other day I said to myself, "I'm Jesus-fucking-Christ."

I forgive almost anyone for anything.

[Koliedrus]

It's not easy but thanks for reminding me, Skywalker.

We have a lot of work to do.

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Forgiveness is for nice people and christians. I'm hard and bitter and prefer to hold on to my grudges. They may not keep me warm at night but they sure as hell stop me from getting stabbed in the back....again.

[Billyman]

Simon, I can’t relate to your situation directly however I feel your anger and pain. I understand the root of your feelings……I understand the hate. Hopefully, when the time comes, you’ll take a higher road but again, I understand where your mind is at and why it’s there. There is no room for forgiveness here……….at least not in my eyes.

Kol, make no mistakes. It isn’t revenge Simon is after………it’s a reckoning.

Something I want you think about and think deep within’ and be honest with the same guy;

There isn’t just one person out there you cannot forgive?

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Kol, make no mistakes. It isn’t revenge Simon is after………it’s a reckoning.

How I would love to be a fly on the wall when that happens...

[ms. bing]

maybe i've just never had someone close to me actually apologize.
it's hard to give what you've never gotten.
as for my own forgiveness, i don't worry much. you said yourself that words don't usually cut it. it takes actions as well.
the universe has given me one big chance to apologize and make right things that were done wrong not only by me, but to me. i intend to live up to that.

[Koliedrus]

you said yourself that words don't usually cut it. it takes actions as well..


Forgiveness has a counterpart called "apology". If you've ever needed to be forgiven for something, you can only hope that words will express your regret for the wrong you've done. Many times it takes deeds as well.

I can't tell you how many dozen roses I've given over the years. Some were for no reason. Some... well. Let's just say I meant every petal.

I have to pose this question to you:

Does it feel better to forgive or to carry the anger?

In some ways, forgiveness can be seen as a selfish act. If you really mean it, there are no losers.

It all depends on what's in your heart.

[SimpleSimon]

I can't tell you how many dozen roses I've given over the years. Some were for no reason. Some... well. Let's just say I meant every petal.

I have to pose this question to you:

Does it feel better to forgive or to carry the anger?

In some ways, forgiveness can be seen as a selfish act. If you really mean it, there are no losers.

It all depends on what's in your heart.


Kol, I have no problem with the idea that by your own (and the dominant social meme's) standards, you are a better man than I.

There are very few persons whom I might need to forgive. Probably more I ought, by societies standards, seek forgiveness from. Guess what? Forgiveness I do not seek - I am responsible for the consequences of my choices, and if others hate me for them, they are entitled to do so.

As for me forgiving those toward whom my animosity is directed - it isn't going to happen. It is not something I feel any need to do, see any benefit from, and I do NOT embrace our societies dominant judeo-christian morality.

My adherence to that social paradigm is conscious and deliberate. I can, at need, step outside it, and act on my own decisions by my own standards. There is a cost/benefit analysis attached to such a decision - at this time the cost of doing so outweighs the potential benefit. If the major factors of that analysis change, so will the decision I make.

What is in my heart is a stone. Where those deserving of vengeance stand within my regard, I see targets of opportunity. When the opportunity is right, the target will be destroyed. Be certain of that.

[Billyman]

Kol, I have no problem with the idea that by your own (and the dominant social meme's) standards, you are a better man than I.

No hell he isn't.

Practice what you preach Kol.

Fair warning.

[Koliedrus]

I suppose this means I'm not welcome at your wedding.

[SimpleSimon]

No hell he isn't.

Practice what you preach Kol.

Fair warning.

Billy, would you be kind enough to explain the source of the animosity you so clearly feel toward Kol? Just a few short years ago you were his happy companion in mutually risking your lives for the thrill of it, and the comradeship.

[Koliedrus]

I've been working in retail with the same company for 25 years. That may be part of it. I dunno.

I expect to get bashed, though. I was spat on just for being a member of THT last night. Not fun. But, there it is.

[Billyman]

There is no animosity once so ever.

This has everything to do with hypocrisy.

And that I cannot stand.

[Koliedrus]

Just get it out!

Hell, I made it all too clear that I'd get out of the way so THT could go on. Hit me!

[Billyman]

This is what irks me as I sit hear and read……..

Kol my man, think real hard………..real hard about someone very close to you and how they were wronged, very wronged………in so many ways it’s hard to imagine if not impossible. Then think real hard on the exact words you have used (in private) on your feelings, emotions and forgiveness of the wrong doer.

You have made it quit clear how you feel about said person and I agree with you on those feelings but to come here and play some “saint” game ain’t cutting it anymore. I’m sick and fucking tired of your hypocrisy.

I may be an asshole but I’m a genuine asshole.

[Billyman]

I suppose this means I'm not welcome at your wedding.

Of course you are you dolt.

This is internet shit and altogether different.

[Koliedrus]

Ironic. I'm probably the only person who still gives a shit about him. I may be floundering in confusion but I still want that guy to make it.

I even sent out a call for help at one point and got... Nothing but anger.

I talked to Jason just a few hour ago and I made this promise:

"I'll keep you at arm's length but I won't turn my back on you"

[Billyman]

Not what I was referring too bro.

Try again.

Hint.......Think "X".

[Koliedrus]

Oh, just come out with it! Slap me upside the head and make me look like an ass !

[Koliedrus]

/me cringes while Biilly composes a background check....

[Koliedrus]

Welp, in my opinion, the title of this thread is a good one.

[Billyman]

"X" + wife = your wifes "X".

He suddenly a buddy of yours?

Here’s the point I’m trying to make;

You’ve displayed your thoughts about the man and how forgiveness isn’t something you can find yourself doing. This is loathing……………this is hate………….this is hating with a passion. In Simons case it is no different ‘cept for the fact your wife is still around to tell you about it yet you come here and preach about “forgiveness”.

It’s not that you aren’t being honest with everyone else it’s that you aren’t even honest with yourself.

[Koliedrus]

My wife's ex husband.

Ok yeah. I appreciate that he accepted the wrongs he'd done so that we could go on with our lives.

Shake his hand and say, "don't sweat it, bro"?

Like I said, I'm human.

What else?

Oh. Your'e talking about the time Sid was jealous about me and Jess yacking in IM.

Yeah, that was a tough one.


Don't look up to me. Look Down on me.

[MAC]

ok

kol, you are posting like me and you didn't pay any royalties!

bannored!

FYI: forgiveness (http://www.spot-hogg.com/newsletter_2.htm) as it applies to my newest hobby

*MAC goes to re-read and see why we have dueling sigs*

hmmmm

forgiveness has it's limits, indeed

the concept of "they asked for it" (forgiveness) does seem to apply

but maybe we should each start our replies with "there's one motherfucker I won't forgive if he asks for it"

on second thought, let me offer a really inappropriate analogy:
there are somethings I won't stand for. but they are MY problem as much as they are his/hers.
even the guy who's pissed me off the most could walk this world with no animosity from me should he simply live out his days in a way that I can not say "he once fucked me and I hate him despite what's he done since" without it being MY problem. (This ties into the concept of a higher authority/order which you can deny all you want but science proves you wrong) Anyone who's made me so mad that I decided to simplyhave nothing to do with them can go on to be someone who's hand I'll shake and NOT say I'm only kidding.

I don't have to like all your actions but I must acknowledge your balance. I have done such stupid/hurtful things to certain ppl that i don't expect their forgiveness but I hope to balance it out on some greater scale. (blind hope, I'm sure)

In the case of the man who shot simon's wife. I can say definitively that I am NOT the man to EVER say "OK, he's paid his dues". He can't pay his dues to me. He can't pay his dues to any living man. He's apiece of shit and should be killed to make the world a better place for childern whom I hope will not do he same (although some will). I don't expect him to pay his dues to simon. That's his "sin" (pardon the use of that word in this thread) to live with forever and make his own peace with. If simon ever catches the guy broke down on the side of the road I'll be happy to help, in whatever fashion I can, to dispose of the body. (you may notice I haven't replied to certain threads regarding men close enough to me that I could possibly do that) I know how much I hate that fucker's actions but I can only measure it in perspective to how it SHOULD weigh on his soul (based, once again, on my perspective alone and not Simon's). It's out of my hands to forgive him. Fuck him. Let him die and rot, maybe the grass that grows on his grave will do some good. He should seek his own forgivenness for what he did and I cannot give it. I think he should put one in his own head to seek balance in some bigger picture I can't measure (I like the word karma here).
As for kol's "hypocrisy", billy reiterates the point of the thread by bringing it up. I can forgive Kol, in the face of such a scar, to say we should forgive even those who have wronged us the most, for our own sake Kol has done nothing wrong but try to spread a concept he himself has found the limits of. if you could help him through his anger to a point wher eit was OK would you? oops, my bad, you already have.

Do you think (knowing me as you do) that I can ever say "oh, it's ok that my ex told me she loved me forever and then didn't"? It's not ok. It will never be ok. Is it Ok she left me for someother guy? It's nto and it never will be. But what bearing does that have on my kid? None. My daughter doesn't care what her mamma did only what she does. I support what she does because what she does is good. My anger at her choice and my own failings mean nothing. The only person to forgive in my scenario is myself. You'll know when I do. I will judge every one who ever says they love me by it. But that's my problem and not my daughter's. Isn't that what have you urged me to do since the beginning? Get over it? I'll never be over it. What choice do I have?

Maybe the topic should be the topic "when you have no choice but to get over it how do you define forgiveness"?

I define it as I already said: when you realise it was your fault also.
What happened to Simon and to Kol was neither of their faults.
Not being able to forgive, is.
Saying "maybe, we who are not to blame, can forgive those who wronged us through others, is possible" could be a good thing which should be pursued, IMHO

this is a debate you should always keep in the back of your mind because, sooner or later, you wil have this debate with yourself when there is no one else left to forgive.

[cw_]

I've been working in retail with the same company for 25 years. That may be part of it. I dunno.

I expect to get bashed, though. I was spat on just for being a member of THT last night. Not fun. But, there it is.
Drama queen.
Kol came to # wota when nobody was typing and asked why nobody was typing. So I said 'we don't take kindly to people from THT round these parts' and then typed /me spits. Obvious affectation.

[MAC]

he obviously hasn't learned about your subtle humor yet, cw

*MAC realises that he should wear shoes in #wota from now on*

[Billyman]

Oh. Your'e talking about the time Sid was jealous about me and Jess yacking in IM.

Yeah, that was a tough one.

Nope again.

Don't look up to me. Look Down on me.

I have to look down to you, you're slightly shorter than I. For what it's worth, I view you as human. One with a huge heart, one that is loving and caring but perhaps too much at times. And sometimes one that will go to extremes to retain his “saint” appearance. I say “saint” yes, because there are those around here that think you are. Now I think you’re a wonderful guy and you paint some pretty pictures but you know and I know you’re as flawed as any other human here.

Mac says it wasn’t hypocrisy but I just disagree. And that’s from nothing more than my own personal feelings. I don’t have the right to beat my children and then preach to someone else of why they shouldn’t theirs. *insert a billion other examples here*.

Kol, you have said, point blank and period that you cannot forgive the Ex. for what he has done. You’re emotions have run ramped when actually thinking about the hurt of someone you love. You have actually used the word ‘hate’ and ‘kill’ and the sentence “I will never forgive him” (fallowed by descriptive choice words, names and phrases.

Focusing on that alone, you should be able to remotely understand Simon’s state of mind and why he has the feelings he does. Truth be known, you can relate but you fail to mention it. If you did, it would hinder your argument. So it’s best just to look like you walk the path of the righteous man and without fault of your own.

To me, that’s hypocrisy.

[MrsKol]

Ok- Let's review post #5, #11 and #13.

Now since some of this seems to have myself involved (namely my Ex, my husband and my circumstances), let me post a few things.

Kol, is not a hypocrite. MAC also brings that up in his most recent post. In post #5, Kol says he is human. Believe me, he is. So am I. We are all flawed , no news there. This is one of the reasons I called you about the Kol and Jess IM's. Kol failed to tell me about it, my imagination kicked in and I talked to you for reassurance, which I got. What I am disappointed in, is you bringing up something that I thought was private, and it is discussed here. :dunno: But that is forgiven.
In post #11 and #13, Kol implies how he understands Simon's state of mind. I do too for that matter.
As far as my ex is concerned, and this is for the record...
While we were married and he was in Medical School, he put be in the hospital twice.
The first time he beat me up, I didn't go, didn't tell anyone, called in sick to work and school, until the bruises started to heal and I could hide them. The next two times, was when I went to the ER. He was heavily addicted to cocaine at the time and had no idea of what was going on. Have I forgiven him for that...partly. The addiction I forgive. When I pleaded with him to get help and he wouldn't, that I don't forgive.
He did redeem himself (somewhat) several years later, when I asked him for an annulment, so Kol and I could get married in the Catholic Church, my ex put the entire blame of the failure of our marriage on himself. For him to admit that he had any failure is in itself a bloody miracle. My ex is a very arrogant and controling person.
Now, that was a long time ago and Kol and I have been together for 15 years. We have had our ups and downs and thru it all, and believe it or not, we still love each other and want to be old together. On the front porch (we need to build one) in our rocking chairs (I think we can get those at Cracker Barrel?) with our teeth out, watching our great grandchildren playing in the front yard (there goes the english garden!!).
Basically, Kol just wants my ex to stay right where he is...far away from us. And I share that sentiment wholeheartly.

[Billyman]

This has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with the events that surround that phone conversation or the immediate IM conversations surrounding it. This has nothing, I’ll repeat, n…o…t…h…i…n…g to do with any of that. The conversation that was held, that I am referring to and is quoting stuff from was an off the wall conversation back way before there was any conflict between you, Jess and Kol…and me. In fact, it was a conversation between Jess and Barbie, I just happen to have it logged and passed by it while moving some stuff around before my last C-drive format.

I did my best, my very best, to make Kol remember the words he’s used and the conversations he’s had. I didn’t wanna bring it up myself, I didn’t want to bring you into per se. I wanted him to remember and say “damn, I’ve been busted”.

Whether he remembers who he told what makes no difference to me. In my eyes, he’s a hypocrite.

[Koliedrus]

I'd bust that motherfucker's skull wide open if he ever approached my wife or my kids.

So yeah, it depends on the situation surrounding the circumstance that requires forgiveness.

CW, sorry I didn't "get it". Good part is:

Made ya post ;)

For anyone who I may have misled into thinking I'm a "saint", I respectfully request your forgiveness. I never was and never will be.

To Billy especially: I hope that I can make it to your wedding and apologize in person.

[skalie]

So when's the wedding?

[Koliedrus]

It's on
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It's not a pay-per-view event.

Like you would show up, skalie... You just want someone to cam Billy breaking my jaw.
I see through you ;)

[ms. bing]

you know what, kol? your post has been circling around in my head for a couple days now. i began thinking over forgiveness in all its forms and its application in my life.
believe it or not, i'm a pretty private person, but i think i'll share something.
growing up, i always knew my dad loved me, but i always knew i was my mother's child. she had so much hope for me, and that led to a lot of pressure. i found out too late that she, too, was human.
when she died, i felt very, very wronged.
it took years, and the birth of eva, and the chance for the cycle to come full circle and for me to right some of those wrongs by not doing to my daughter what had been done to me. it was a chance to reevaluate every value i had ever been taught. i'm still reevaluating on a daily basis.
somewhere in the course of trying to keep this little person alive and then make her grow into something recognizable as not being raised by wolves, i realized what a difficult job my mother had. it's not easy to be a girl today, and it may be far harder to raise one.
sorry, boys.
she did the best she could. she had fuck all for an example and i'd say that she broadened her mind as much as her brain would allow and tried really, really hard for me. she fucked up a lot, mostly in not taking care of herself in the right way, but she did what she knew to do.
i was in a u-haul, pregnant, driving from austin to st. louis when that forgiving process began. i'd say she and i are on pretty good terms, today.
so there you have it. my forgiveness story. i don't know if i ever got over it, because you can't get over that. but i completely, and with 110% of my heart, forgive.

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

I don't get it. Where is Kol making himself out to be some sort of saint? I don't see it. His very first post in this thread was "I'm only human so in all honesty my own ability to forgive depends on the circumstances surrounding the situation that requires forgiveness." - Hardly words of a saint. Hardly words of a hypocrite.

Billyman, this whole argument between Kol and yourself is none of my fucking business I know - but seeing as how you feel it's ok to bring up private dirty laundry I don't see why I should refrain from butting in. The personal digs at Kol are getting a bit fucking ludicrous. Kol bends over backward trying to keep the rest of us happy, playing happy fucking forum owner/runner guy, and generally taking on the grievances any forum members may have. At the risk of sounding like RW, show the man a bit of fucking respect for christs sake. If you have a beef with him, take it to barathrum. Kol has an enormous heart and is by nature a worrier, this persistent winding him up should stop.

[Billyman]

The more I think about “it”…everything as a whole. The more I go back and re-read…..things/stuff……..you’re more right than you know Muffy.

I don’t agree with some things Kol does but that just about goes for everybody else and vice versa. Lately I’ve been lashing out at a good man, a damn good man and I honestly don’t know why. I can’t pin it on jealousy because there’s nothing to be jealous of. I can’t pin it on hate or loathing of the man because I just happen to actual love the man on several different levels. (funny way of showing it huh?) If there was a man one could consider a true friend Mike is that man. I on the other hand have shown quite the opposite.

Jaws:

I’d never attempt to strike Kol in anyway. I’ve never had a reason too. Even in the climax of all this I would still greet him with a smile, a hand shake and open arms. This is just internet BS. I know that sounds odd and weak but hell, at one time a co-worker and myself use to argue relentlessly on a discussion board and flame the hell of each other. The following day at work nothing was ever spoke of it. We resumed our day as if it didn’t happen. We worked, played, talked and laughed…….all in work and good times. But as soon as we got back home and on the board, we were at each others throats again. Right in the middle of a heated discussion he’d PM me and ask if I’d host a pic for him and I’d of course I’d say “yeah”. Wash and repeat. It was just internet BS.

It all comes down to who you actually respect as a person and who you don’t I guess. I have the utmost respect for Kol as a person and in real life. Sometimes I get a little addled at stuff here on the net is all. There’s another party around here that I don’t share these sentiments for. One of which I have no respect for at all……in any aspect. And I’m coming to realize that I’m going to wind up with the lot of you feeling the same about me if not already.

I need to take my own advice, take a few deep breaths, and properly analyze any and all situations before I set my keyboard on fire. Thanks Muffy.

I’m not asking forgiveness for I feel I’d have to prove myself “worthy” of it so please stand by. However, with that I will offer my applogies (yeah I know it’s 'apologies' but there’s no fun in that and I like to be different).

[Koliedrus]

I’m not asking forgiveness for I feel I’d have to prove myself “worthy” of it so please stand by. However, with that I will offer my applogies (yeah I know it’s 'apologies' but there’s no fun in that and I like to be different).

No deeds required on my end. Words are A-OK with me.

You might want to ditch the red font, though. Makes you seem pissed when you aren't.

And no more man tit's on the cam page!


I think it's time for others to take a shot at this Lesson. We're already harvesting a good batch of diamonds.

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

:)

[jess]

Let's all just be happy, I'm getting married in less then a week. :D
And if Billy can behave, so will he.
:haha:

[skalie]

So where's the wedding?

[Billyman]

You might want to ditch the red font, though. Makes you seem pissed when you aren't.


Can't do it man. I have two favorite colors.........black and red.

Hmm, I could type everything in black? :kekekegay

[Billyman]

So where's the wedding?

Beautancus N.C.

Come on and eat some pig with us.

[ms. bing]

i have this nasty habit of just skipping to the end of these long threads to reply whatever's on my mind. part of my natural obliviousness.
so today i go a-readin', because i'm wondering why my conversation with kol on forgiveness ended up in something called "the piss-match".
WTF??
are you guys serious?
billy, you dredged up enough old, private shit to keep a soap opera happy for two weeks. i didn't need to know any of that stuff.
simon, mac, glad to see you guys speak the same language or whatever; personally i don't. i'm a big believer in karma, and this dude of which you speak will die with no help from you whatsoever, and he'll come back as a dung beetle about two and a half seconds from getting stomped on by an elephant or something. a fly getting his wings pulled off by a sadistic 6 year old. a caterpillar that never makes it to butterfly, thanks to a hungry bluejay.
use your imagination. (i like bugs).
mrs. kol, sorry you had to relive in word form such a painful part of your life. sorry i had to read it. i can commiserate. every now and then i have wondered how the man i once married, who was sweet and silly, if a little bit of a waste, turned into a man who was controlling and mean. i remember words of advice from the late, great HST: "you can turn your back on a man, but never turn your back on a drug." my ex was the same sweet, silly man who was controlled by the drugs he chose to do. in the end, i couldn't stay married to the drug, and it looked like he chose the drug over me. happens. leave them to it. sounds like you did. good for you (and good for kol!)

pissy pissy moan moan
now that we're all made up, how 'bout hugs all around?
i'll start.
*HUGS*

[Koliedrus]

Ok, who renamed this thing?

[ms. bing]

thanks
as i type this eva and i are sharing the first green beans out of our garden (raw)
i'll probably end up with some in my keyboard

[Koliedrus]

What can I say? I'm slow.

Get a towel?

I know... Digest well.

[Cruise Director]

I was thinking about moving this thread to MFC a few pages back but as it progressed, this is exactly where it belongs.

Lessons: More than good.... but good FOR you. :)

[Koliedrus]

Split this thread outta my original forgiveness thread.

Shit. Now Sid's post it just confusing.

Now I have to do math and ask for permission to make corrections.

/me chants "baby ducks and laser party"

One has nothing to do with the other. Just stuff I'm saving up.

[cw_]

Make a wedding thread.
The idea of forgiveness is a haughty one.

[Koliedrus]

I'm still trying to get over my kid cleaning her shoes with my toothbrush. You do it.

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

I'm still trying to get over my kid cleaning her shoes with my toothbrush. You do it.
You think that's bad...Tarryn once blew his nose in my hair! :eek:

[Koliedrus]

Oh yeah?

Holly shoved a booger in my mouth.

Nyah!

[MuffyTheVampyreLayer]

Hahaha! I love kids :D

[ms. bing]

when i was pregnant with eva i was all squemish about the idea of baby poo and spit up and stuff.
to humble me and get me over myself, she shit in my hand every morning at about 5am for four months.
love it.

btw, thanks for the distraction. i was just writing some stuff that was pretty difficult to write and makes it pretty hard to go to sleep afterward, but i've got someone breathing down my neck for it. it's a project i'm working on. nice to get back to reality.

[Koliedrus]

Ok. now you have me recalling first days, blocked bowels and when the advice everyone we called took affect.

Holly will put a knee in my groin someday if i don't stop and say, "Yeah, I get it."

So, yeah, I get it.

[mute]

:wtf: