hunting

[MAC]

I’ve been a hunter for almost 20 years now.
Not quite like the guys on outdoor network.
I don’t own anything in realtree or with goretex (wish I did tho)
I’ve never owned a deer feeder or called in ducks but I’ve killed a couple of both.
And I’ve never spent more on a gun than on a used car.
Well, okay. Once. That’s another story.

Now I’m sure all you hunters out there have heard this one:
“Why would you want to kill bambi’s mom, when you can drive to the grocery store and buy meat that someone else has already killed, cleaned, and prepared for you?”

Here’s my take.

1) 90% of hunting is stuff other than killing.
Pre-kill:
Taking time off, gathering your gear, walking, stalking, reading the signs, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting
Post-kill:
Field extraction, gutting, butchering, grinding, slicing, wrapping, freezing

The actual shot is the smallest least complex part of the hunt.
The kill may or may not happen but you are still hunting.

2) If you could climb out of bed on a cool fall morning take a walk in the calm quiet woods, spend 50cents and come home with 50-100 gals of gasoline why would you go to the gas station and pay $1.50/gal?

Now I’m not discussing ethics here.
I don’t care about how many dumb asses get drunk and shot up a lot of ammo.
I don’t want to hear how we kill mommy deer and leave the babies to starve.
I’m not responsible for those who cannot follow the rules.
I hunt for food.
I hunt for the challenge.
And I hunt because my species has seen fit to remove the other natural predators, replace them with feral species and I’m taxed to kill creatures that overpopulate because of the success of the programs I’m taxed to support.

In a nut shell, I like it.

What do you hunters and non-hunters think.
And Why?


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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

<IMG SRC="http://www.tyler.net/roguewarrior/images/macsnake.jpg" border=0>

[Escape Artist]

Like you said, hunting isn't about simply shooting animals. Hell, if I wanted to do that, I'd boroow my friend's 16 gauge and go wait for pets to go by the house. I figure squirrel shot'd work damned good on a cat. http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Hunting is about getting out in the wilderness more than anything for me.
Mostly everything is urban now (at least in lower MI), even simply going out in the wild and getting nothing but a fun day out of it is worth the time and expense.

The hunt's not too bad either..
Stalking prey, testing your skills against the instinct built up by animals over millions of years is something that can't be compared to. Even with a gun, it ain't easy. I know one guy that hunts a lot, been many, many years at it and he's only got about 20 deer to his name. Says a lot for the deer. Guns aren't that big an advantage.

PETA freaks can scream and shit their pants about cruelty to fish or whatnot, but that's the way life is. If we aren't hunting and fishing, something else is. Bears do, wolves, etc. Either the hunted adapt, or they get killed, be it by humans or natural predators. Call it natural selection on a different level, if you will.

One thing I know: do NOT fall into the river in Tawas, MI when it's November and you have no change of clothes. I froze my fucking ass off for 3 days.. http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[Dog Breath]

Hunting for me takes many forms. When I hunt alone it is a highly spiritual adventure. The sounds and sights are completely different and very calming when alone. I will stalk all day firing one shot or arrow or none and be completely fulfilled.
Hunting with a dog is another level. Watching a family pet turn primal, polarized into one purpose, his efficiency, his every move designed to maximize his effectiveness. Watching your lap dog suddenly performing a ballet sublimely enjoying the hunt and his own blood coursing through his veins, the strong scents not muddled by car exhaust and bug spray. Looking at your animal whom has retrieved a bird and handing it to you as to say "look what I did for you!". If you have never seen a hunting dog at work you are missing out on the true essence of what is a dog.
Hunting with family and friends is yet another level. Hunting isn't even the object there. Whom cares if you even see anything. I get to sit, talk, sip coffee, with my dad all day when at home it is hard to scrape together twenty minutes together to really talk.
Hunting isn't about killing. Death is an integral part of hunting but not the object. A hunter forges a deep respect and bond with his prey. Ask any hunter which animal he most respects. He will tell you it is his favorite animal he hunts. Hunters aren't cruel killers. Hunting is a natural thing with deep meaning. There is a very small minority that hunt for the kill. They are insecure people whom are simply trying to shock and impress others. It is the same mentality as getting numerous facial piercings in order to be noticed.
Eating beef from Styrofoam trays under cellophane is unnatural. You never get to see the beauty of the living thing that is giving you life. Why don't we hunt cattle? Because cattle are no challenge and there is no spiritual connection. You will never sit in awe of a cow like seeing a heard of elk slipping through the brush and vanishing as quickly as they came. When you eat wild meat that you hunted you can feel like you deserve to partake of it's life. Buying beef using money you earned at work is hardly worthy of the animal....even a cow.

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[Kayla]

Ive never been hunting before. I'm kind of interested in it just because many people in my family do hunt. Although i am a littel apprehensive about killing an innocent animal. I'm against killing something you don't intend to eat. So hunting is wrong unless you plan on eating the animal you kill.

thats pretty much my view onit

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Your such an inspiration for the ways that i will never ever choose to be

[Dog Breath]

Get a telephoto lens and shoot some critters. You don't have to carry a gun to go on a hunting trip. You won't be sorry.

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[Cruise Director]

I used to shoot anything that lived. Now I hunt with a camera. I enjoy the bondiing with my friends and don't mind if they want to shoot an animal. Hell, half the time I end up skinning it for them. I still shoot on a regular basis but have no personal desire to kill most animals.

I also fish without a pole sometimes; but for totally different reasons. Something about sitting on a riverbank with a cold beer and doing nothing but talking to yourself andthrowing rocks in. It is a true healing experience.

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There was a moment of utter silence before Hell's door flew open.

[Skeet]

I've never been hunting. I could never even come CLOSE to killing or eating any beautiful creature. I once shot a pigeon with a BB gun and criend for days, I couldn't even go to school. I can't stand being around "mounted" animals, it makes me fucking cry.

I have been Deer "Tagging" however. Where you wear a special marking clove and you have to sneak up on the deer and touch it, the touch being the same as a "kill". If I can sneak up and touch a deer, i can shoot one anyday http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif

Keep the instinct, lose the action, thats what I say. All animals are so beautiful, why would you want to kill them?

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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[Rabble Rouser]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Skeet:
I've never been hunting. I could never even come CLOSE to killing or eating any beautiful creature. I once shot a pigeon with a BB gun and criend for days, I couldn't even go to school. I can't stand being around "mounted" animals, it makes me fucking cry.

I have been Deer "Tagging" however. Where you wear a special marking clove and you have to sneak up on the deer and touch it, the touch being the same as a "kill". If I can sneak up and touch a deer, i can shoot one anyday http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif

Keep the instinct, lose the action, thats what I say. All animals are so beautiful, why would you want to kill them?

[/quote]

http://www.thehypertribe.net/ubb/smile.gif


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"We must put an end to this. We've seen enough body bags and ballsacks." - Henry Kissinger

[Dog Breath]

Why kill animals?

This is probably not the answer you were looking for.
Most people assign a higher place for animals based upon size beauty and intelligence in that order. Then plants and finally insects. Is there a plant less worthy of our love than a cockroach? Then bacteria and finally viruses.
I say "life is life". The taking of life is necessary for the perpetuation of life. Why would you assume the life of a deer is more important than the grass it is eating.
Vegetarians claim "Meat is murder". They claim wearing fur is wrong. Why then isn't eating plants murder? Were they not alive. Isn't that cotton dress just as much a part of a life as that fur coat? Unless you plan on eating rocks and smearing yourself with mud you made by rubbing rocks together with carefully filtered water your life will continue to end others.
Only human life has a greater value because we have decided that in order to feel secure that someone will not take our own life we have forbidden the taking of human life altogether. I agree that animals should be reasonably protected from extinction but not be worshiped.
People have been worshiping animals since before written history, the same goes for the earth.
Environmentalism and animal rights activism are modern extensions of those religions.
If you truly want to protect life set an example and have yourself frozen and buried in the polar ice-cap. For me I will continue to live and end the lives of countless organisms without wasting them and while respecting them.

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Woof.
If it's so sick, why are you laughing?
<IMG SRC="http://sites.netscape.net/mydogbreath/dogbre2.gif" border=0>

[Skeet]

I guess I just feel more....acceptance from plants? A greater desire to fuel my fire? I dunno. I've never seen a plant cringe when i raise my fist.

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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[MAC]

First I'll reiterate that the smallest part of the hunt is the kill (despite its importance). And I'll say once again that its about getting food and the skill that goes along with it.
I'll add that its no less challenging than growing a good garden in that respect.
But the argument that you can't "see" a plant react to you is a piss poor basis for an opinion.
Please watch the discovery channel or something when they have lions killing gazelle and then come back and tell me how the lion is part of its ecosystem and "justify" that we are not.
Then we'll be down to the actual "meat" of this suddenly philosophical debate.

Many good comments all together, though.
And I'm glad to see that so many people understand that a camera will take you through the same course a rifle will.
Just enjoy the outdoors.

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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

<IMG SRC="http://www.tyler.net/roguewarrior/images/macsnake.jpg" border=0>

[This message has been edited by theMAC (edited 05-15-2001).]

[Skeet]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by theMAC:
But the argument that you can't "see" a plant react to you is a piss poor basis for an opinion.
Please watch the discovery channel or something when they have lions killing gazelle and then come back and tell me how the lion is part of its ecosystem and "justify" that we are not.
Then we'll be down to the actual "meat" of this suddenly philosophical debate.
[/quote]


I've never seen a lion kill tons of animal life by spilling tons of oil into the sea. I've never seen a gazelle open a factory and pollute the entire area. Airports, gas stations, CARS, restaraunts, parking lots. We took ourselves out of the ecosystem when we started to destroy it. Just my piss poor opinion.


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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[FallenAngel]

<FONT COLOR="limegreen"> i shot a gun once .. *bows, please hold the applause* .... i fell on my ass .... i havent bothered to try again </FONT c>

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And one time at band camp...

[D_I]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Skeet:
I've never seen a lion kill tons of animal life by spilling tons of oil into the sea. I've never seen a gazelle open a factory and pollute the entire area. Airports, gas stations, CARS, restaraunts, parking lots. We took ourselves out of the ecosystem when we started to destroy it. Just my piss poor opinion.[/quote]

How does that relate to hunting?

Not a hunter, myself. Never interested me much. I do see the need for it. The predators are gone for the most part and the herds still need to be culled or face starvation. I have zero problem with people who hunt for food.

Just dont ask me to eat it. Not a 'game' meat fan.

[Skeet]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Dead_Inside:
How does that relate to hunting?
[/quote]

Refer to the post i was replying to. We've gotten a bit off track.



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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[D_I]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Skeet:
Refer to the post i was replying to. We've gotten a bit off track.[/quote]

I did. I read it as it equates to human predatory instinct. Like any other prey hunting animal. You made a plant(gathering) reference, Mac made an animal(hunting) reference. Then you spoke about obvious enviormental issues that, to me, are more about indifference and greed than anything to do with hunting.

I guess I was maybe a little off track, as well.

[Skeet]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Please watch the discovery channel or something when they have lions killing gazelle and then come back and tell me how the lion is part of its ecosystem and "justify" that we are not.
[/quote]

Thats what my post was targeted at.

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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[D_I]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Skeet:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Please watch the discovery channel or something when they have lions killing gazelle and then come back and tell me how the lion is part of its ecosystem and "justify" that we are not.
[/quote]

Thats what my post was targeted at.
[/quote]

Then why leave it off your original responce?

[MAC]

Now Skeet, I'm not picking on you but you are the only person who spoke up with your angle. So your's is the arguement I will address.

First of all I don't care how much we pollute, we are still part of the ecosystem.
We try NOT to be. We even design our religions and citys so that It appears we are not. But we are. We take things from this planet for our own use.
Thats participation.

Next things like oil spills and dirty water don't cut it in the EVIL HUMAN argument.
One volcanic eruption or one under water landslide kills more animals than all our nuclear accidents put together. Not counting freezes, hurricanes, tornados, monsoons, earthquakes, etc.

What makes our waste and pollution BAD is that we are aware of it.

We are smart enough to know what we are doing and that it will have an adverse affect. However, nature does recover. She is designed to. The ones that suffer are the present generation of Man and Animal.

The reason I started this thread was to reach this point. If you look back at the comments of both sides we all feel the same respect for the world we live in.
One side says
Killing is unecessary and the potential abuse makes the risk unacceptable.
The other says
Killing is natural and it can be done with its intended integrity.
But both sides say isn't it amazeing.
Imagine living outside as a caveman. When the sun goes down ITS DARK.
When the wind blows ITS COLD.

Makes you glad you are where you are today and at the same time it makes you want that strength.

Like so many things if you don't like hunting don't do it.
You shouldn't be asked to support it or pay for it out of your taxes either.
I personally dislike the ethics alot of hunters display.
But I will take great care of my part in the hunt.

Please, feel free to have the last word.
Thanks for honest opposition.

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Don't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding.

<IMG SRC="http://www.tyler.net/roguewarrior/images/macsnake.jpg" border=0>

[Skeet]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Dead_Inside:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by Skeet:
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Please watch the discovery channel or something when they have lions killing gazelle and then come back and tell me how the lion is part of its ecosystem and "justify" that we are not.
[/quote]

Thats what my post was targeted at.
[/quote]

Then why leave it off your original responce?

[/quote]

I believe in did "justify" that we are NOT part of the ecosystem, which was what my response was aimed at.


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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[Skeet]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by theMAC:

Please, feel free to have the last word.
Thanks for honest opposition.

[/quote]


Norf.

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"Purple cats in purple cars, purple cheats and purple lies. Purple cats, purple cats. please give me a purple burge, with a side of purrrrr-ple fries."
By John Michael Greenwood
<IMG SRC="http://www.suburbanninja.com/images/subninlogo1.gif" border=0>

[CzEcH rEcK]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Originally posted by theMAC:
I’ve been a hunter for almost 20 years now.
Not quite like the guys on outdoor network.
I don’t own anything in realtree or with goretex (wish I did tho)
I’ve never owned a deer feeder or called in ducks but I’ve killed a couple of both.
And I’ve never spent more on a gun than on a used car.
Well, okay. Once. That’s another story.

Now I’m sure all you hunters out there have heard this one:
“Why would you want to kill bambi’s mom, when you can drive to the grocery store and buy meat that someone else has already killed, cleaned, and prepared for you?”

Here’s my take.

1) 90% of hunting is stuff other than killing.
Pre-kill:
Taking time off, gathering your gear, walking, stalking, reading the signs, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting
Post-kill:
Field extraction, gutting, butchering, grinding, slicing, wrapping, freezing

The actual shot is the smallest least complex part of the hunt.
The kill may or may not happen but you are still hunting.

2) If you could climb out of bed on a cool fall morning take a walk in the calm quiet woods, spend 50cents and come home with 50-100 gals of gasoline why would you go to the gas station and pay $1.50/gal?

Now I’m not discussing ethics here.
I don’t care about how many dumb asses get drunk and shot up a lot of ammo.
I don’t want to hear how we kill mommy deer and leave the babies to starve.
I’m not responsible for those who cannot follow the rules.
I hunt for food.
I hunt for the challenge.
And I hunt because my species has seen fit to remove the other natural predators, replace them with feral species and I’m taxed to kill creatures that overpopulate because of the success of the programs I’m taxed to support.

In a nut shell, I like it.

What do you hunters and non-hunters think.
And Why?


[/quote]

<FONT COLOR="lightBlue">Living in england with the gun control laws makes hunting a little hard, I'm not saying that the control laws stop us hunting, (As we can use 3 shot shot guns, and .22's) It's geogrophy that limits us.
There is no hunting season and a special permit is needed to hunt.

I was reading your post and see nothing wrong with killing for food, If you gut it and eat it your self, I don't care who you are it's gotta taste better.

I don't understand killing for the sake of it, just to leave an animal to rot, when you can have weeks worth of BBQ meat.

I wanted to know, over here you have to pay to kill the deer and then you can buy bits of what you've killed.

Are you allowed to kill for free and keep what you kill in the states? Just wondering.</FONT c>